What's up with "classes"?

[TxFig]

I saw another thread where someone had just gotten "kicked out" of a training class. I didn't want to hijack their thread, so I'm going to ask here.


Maybe it's the fact that I have spent the last 25+ years with Retrievers (training for Hunt Tests & Field Trials), but I've got to ask:

Why do GSD folks all seem to go to training "classes"?


I don't mean to knock them - I just don't understand it. With retrievers, we do all the obedience work 1 dog at a time. It allows the pup to focus on what it is that is being taught. We still do socialization - we just don't do it at the same time we train.

It seems to me that getting a bunch of adolescent puppies together is making things hard on both the pup and the trainer. Am I wrong?

[Shade]

Puppy classes are both good and bad.

Good: socialization starts early and they learn from a young age to focus on you in class despite distractions

Bad: depending on the trainer it can be chaos.

Despite some issues that popped up in Delgado's puppy class (First Puppy Class - Issues I really do think that it did help him in the long run.

I don't think puppy class is absolutely necessary but with the right trainer I think it can be a very good start

[onedogman]

I wondered the same thing. I had a GSD 30 Yrs. ago & she never went to any training, other than the work we did with her. I have a 7 1/2 Mo old now and will do any training myself. I am retired so I have the time and I suspect that's probably it with many...time.

[LaneyB]

I am not very experienced with dogs, but I do take my GSD to training classes. First - my breeder requires in the contract that you go to 1 puppy class, 1 general obedience and then 1 more class of your choice. Second - I like that it gives us built in distractions. We work some with him at home, but I like how he is learning in class to ignore the other dogs and people. This is something I'm sure you could use things other than training class for, like going to a park or in public. Third - I am not the best dog trainer, and I like having the trainer there to observe and give suggestions. And last - for me it gives me dedicated time that I work with Ruki. Sometimes I get a tad lazy with him and don't work on things as much as I should. We spend way more time playing out in the yard with a ball than we do working on commands, so this gives us at least a day a week to just do commands.

It seems to me that getting a bunch of adolescent puppies together is making things hard on both the pup and the trainer. Am I wrong?

Sometimes I enjoy training class, and sometimes I find it pretty stressful.

[jae]

Honestly, yes I have found classes to be great to work in distractions. But regardless of the distractions in class, it does not translate much to the real world. He will still find distractions in any rabbit, dog, or tree, as he sees fit. Makes it necessary to still work obedience in no matter where we go.

Maybe he gets used to the other dogs. By the second class, his attention has been focused on me.

Classes are just a good reason to have your pup next to you, training next to others who are training, and showing your dog that training is good. I do believe that dogs feed off each other, training is no exception, shows your dog that other dogs are doing the same thing they are.

And also for trainers to step in and correct your methods. Although that has has happened minimal, it makes me feel good that maybe I am doing the right thing in training. Or maybe I am just wasting my money.

Really, can do the same training anywhere there are distractions, if you know how to train. We will not be in more obedience classes, seems like we have that down pretty well. But for other sports, why not.

[TxFig]

Originally Posted by Shade

Puppy classes are both good and bad.

Good: socialization starts early and they learn from a young age to focus on you in class despite distractions

Hmmm. This sounds like it is still trying to do 2 things at once (socialization and training). What's worse, this is happening at the very beginning of a pup's training.


For example, in training a retriever - we teach them to run straight to a bird, pick it up, and come straight back. We begin this by doing it in a field that resembles a golf course fairway (ie. flat and no grass). In other words, removing as many distractions as possible.

It's only after the pup has learned to go straight out and come straight back that we begin adding distractions (longer distances, higher grass, another dog, another bird). And we add those distractions ONE AT A TIME and don't add another one until the pup is very solid in their work. We did this because we wanted to set up the pup to SUCCEED.


You can always tell when a person tried to add too many things at a time by the problems their pups were having (I used to judge those field events too...). By starting out in an environment with lots of distractions, it seems that the pups are being setup to FAIL (I would call getting kicked out of a class a "fail").

[Shade]

I forgot to add that most centres have certain requirements for their classes

So for instance if I want to do tracking, Agility, RallyO, etc then I have to do their beginner and intermediate obedience classes. Some have clauses which allow you to demonstrate the level of obedience your dog has beforehand so you can skip but not all.

[Lilie]

When a poster comes onto an internet forum, clearly upset because their 12 week old puppy aggressively attacked them or a member of their family, that poster needs more support than a internet forum can provide. Not because their 12 week old puppy is aggressive, but because the poster believes their 12 week old puppy is aggressive and a danger to them and their family.

When it comes to advice on how to teach your dog to sit, or stay etc. is just advice. But if the poster claims their dog/pup won't sit because it's too busy trying to eat the cat - then you have to wonder, why are you sweating over the dog not sitting? You should be concerned that the dog is blowing you off to eat your cat. Not only does the dog need help, but the owner does to. Not because they are a bad owner, but because they need to view themselves through a fresh pair of eyes.

[Shade]

Originally Posted by TxFig

Hmmm. This sounds like it is still trying to do 2 things at once (socialization and training). What's worse, this is happening at the very beginning of a pup's training.


For example, in training a retriever - we teach them to run straight to a bird, pick it up, and come straight back. We begin this by doing it in a field that resembles a golf course fairway (ie. flat and no grass). In other words, removing as many distractions as possible.

It's only after the pup has learned to go straight out and come straight back that we begin adding distractions (longer distances, higher grass, another dog, another bird). And we add those distractions ONE AT A TIME and don't add another one until the pup is very solid in their work. We did this because we wanted to set up the pup to SUCCEED.


You can always tell when a person tried to add too many things at a time by the problems their pups were having (I used to judge those field events too...). By starting out in an environment with lots of distractions, it seems that the pups are being setup to FAIL (I would call getting kicked out of a class a "fail").

You're generalizing

No not all dogs will do well in a group class but combining home and class obedience proofs both in most cases, not hinders.

If I felt I was hindering my dog I would have pulled him and switched to either private classes or waited until he was older. I worked with the trainer and came out better for it at the end, not hurt.

Not all trainers are equal, especially pet owners who have no official training. Jazzy has never been to a class, but she's simply a pet, basic obedience is all I ask of her and I can do that myself. For Delgado I'm doing much more, and I do want professional help to make sure I don't fail. Having a second set of trained eyes watching you and giving constructive criticism is never a bad thing

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I think that the average pet owner is not going to have or give the time or money to have individual training sessions to have a dog that is generally well behaved, whereas someone preparing a dog for sport with an end result in mind of a specific level of training, will do so.

People who want and are able to do either individual lessons or the training at home first so that they are ready for the D's The three D?s of dog training and why you need to know about them | Dog Star Daily that they will encounter in classes, do definitely exist, but you do see that even those things won't prepare dogs/people for the reality of being in a small space with a lot of sounds, smells, and sights to compete with!

So sometimes it's better just to bite the bullet with a puppy and teach them in that environment from the start!

Group classes are a great way to educate more people and more dogs at once, but I do agree, they may not be optimal, and some can be detrimental.