German Shepherds Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

13wks- pretty sure she is trying to kill me

10K views 54 replies 32 participants last post by  27justice.bryant 
#1 ·
Prepare for a wall of text. My wife and I really need some help with several things with our 13 week old female working line GSD.

We've hired a local trainer who does shutzhund with her GSDs and occasionally breeds to help us but, there are some things I just don't think are getting sorted out for some reason. The trainer does say she is a very smart girl, who picks things up very quickly and I sometimes wonder if she isn't a bit too much dog for the trainer never mind my wife and I.

I'll list the issues in order of importance to me.

1. She bites... A LOT AND HARD. I've got cuts all over my hands as does my wife and today she drew blood from my mom who was doing me a favor and letting the dog out while I was at work and my wife who works from home is out of town.

I understand with any puppy and especially GSDs there will be chewing, playful mouthing and that she is probably teething right now. What I'm talking about is for a few hours a day she wants to do nothing but bite anyone or anything around except for what she is supposed to and I'm not sure how to address it. I've tried the methods detailed here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/134407-teaching-bite-inhibition.html

Pulling away and making an "ouch" noise just makes her look at you, mouth more softly for a little bit and then when you start to relax put the chomp on you.

When trying to redirect to a toy/chewy/etc... she drops it and bites your hands. When stopping play and walking away she attacks your feet or pants. We did this for the first two weeks with no real improvements. We started to use higher value chews like Bully sticks and pig snouts and saw some improvements initially but, she seemed to get over them pretty quick as well.

We've since tried several different methods recommended by either the breeder, trainer or the Monks of New Skete book I've read. Everything from fingers down her throat, hand under chin other hand behind head until settles, Lifting by scruff while supporting bottom or ribs until settles, lifting front legs off ground with leash and counting to 3... She seems to look at pretty much all of these as an escalation that she should then answer with more biting. :help:

2. Exercise/Walking on a lead, I'm sure this is where a lot of the problem above comes from. I don't think she is getting enough exercise. That being said it's not from a lack of effort on our part. Her and I will play fetch almost all evening and she is great at it. Loves it, doesn't fight to hold on the toy, brings it right back, everything is good.

She will walk on her lead like a champ if it's my wife and I together. However, if it is just one of us trying to walk her she wants nothing to do with it. She won't go past the driveway without serious encouragement, she just sits and looks back to the house. If I kneel down and call her she will come to me but, that is the extent of her progress. I walk 10' forward and repeat the kneeling/calling. I try to walk her when I get up, my wife tries at least 3 times during the day and the only time we really have much luck is when I get home in the evening and we can all go together.

She wears her collar and leash around the house most of the day so she is is used to the sensation of a collar and leash. What is the deal here?

She will also try to carry her leash in her mouth. I'm not sure how to stop this. I've tried the obvious like gently pulling it out her mouth and saying "drop it" like we do in fetch to putting some bitter apple on it, it doesn't seem to phase her in the least.

3. Jumping on people and furniture. I'll admit we totally set her up for failure on the furniture thing. In the first few days when she wasn't sleeping through the night or used to her crate we would put her on the couch with us so, we could catch a nap without worrying where she was or .

This has now evolved into "I will get on any of the furniture whenever I **** well please". When she is in "seek and destroy" mode she runs laps like a lunatic around the living room then leaps onto the couch or chair, possibly from one to the other and is now trying to scale the back of the couch to get onto the sofa table.:eek:

I generally try to get a hold of her lead before the she makes the leap up and say "no" or "off" if she is already up there but, it has made no difference. I'm not sure what to do here as in the long term I don't mind her being on the furniture when invited but, she is too young to get that notion yet.

Thanks in advance.
 
See less See more
#34 ·
At this point I don't have much of a problem controlling her nipping me. Usually it's just a tug on the leash, a stern "No!" and then an offer of a bully stick.

The big problem now is with my wife. She does most of the training and Brunie is very on point with her when training. When not training however, it seems she is trying to assert her place above my wife in the pecking order. It is especially bad when I leave the house or room.

I've tried telling my wife she needs to be more confident when dealing with the dog. All it takes is one lunge from the dog toward her hands and through habit, survival instinct or what ever you want to call it they go up like she's signalling surrender. Then when she tries to correct Brunie's behavior the dog has learned all she has to do is go after her again and the wife will pull back. I'm having a really hard time convincing her she needs to put herself out there to potentially get nipped a few times show Brunie she is in charge and to stop this problem long term. Any suggestions?
 
#37 ·
My suggestion is walk your wife through what to do and what not to do. If she can't or won't, then YOU need to take over the training. That means that YOU correct for her for pulling this stuff with your wife. If you're not there, the dog is in her crate. I noticed my wife wasn't sitting on the sofa in the evening. Instead, she was standing. I asked her 'why'. She said that each time she sits down, my Pug jumps in her lap and starts messing with Grim, and they start play fighting on her. I said so kick the Pug off the sofa!! :crazy: She's not the best at 'taking control' either. So I feel your pain. I don't think re-homing is the answer. I think you need to have a heart to heart with your wife, and if she can't get on board, then you need to step up since the pup has more respect for you.
 
#35 ·
If you have a trainer in your area who will do home visits, that would be helpful. My concern is that your wife is frightened of a puppy who charges at her, how will she be able to cope as the puppy gets bigger and becomes an adult. The puppy already knows this and has taken advantage. I hate to say this, but if I were you, I would consider rehoming the pup. The pup really sounds like too much dog and would do better in a working home. I also don't think it is fair to your wife to be in this situation and have to live with a puppy who will grow into a powerful dog that she is afraid of.
 
#39 ·
Just to keep this up to date, we are making good progress but, there are still several times a day when our little pup seems to lose her freakin' mind and not be able to control herself at all. It's all fairly standard puppy behavior though: Running, jumping, chewing, barking, zero focus, and of course biting. They always seem to start about 30 minutes after she eats which makes sense I guess.

We have decided to send her to a board and train program that our breeder recommended. It's apparent she is very smart and can learn very quickly but, we are just having a hard time getting some things established. She picked up "such" in all of about 20 minutes but still seems to have no concept of "down" or "off". We feel this isn't an issue with her but, more with us and the weakest link right now is our schedules and lack of experience in training.

She ships out at the beginning of March. It's a husband and wife team that went to the same training school as our breeder. I spoke to the wife for about 30 minutes on the phone and felt really good about it. She'll be there for 2 weeks, live in their house with their shepherds. Amy was also aware of her young age and was taking that into consideration with the training program. She warned that she may require some refresher classes later down the line which was comforting as I've heard starting too young can be bad.

I also like that she was honest with what to expect out of the program, in stating that she cannot take a puppy and in 2 weeks return it as a dog that will not continue to need work, it's just not possible. We don't mind putting the work in at all but, we just don't have the knowledge to it right now and our current trainer doesn't seem to be able to help us with a lot of the issues we are having so... fingers crossed.
 
#41 ·
I am also one who isn't thrilled with send away training..She is a puppy, you know that, why spend money on a board & train for a puppy who probably has the attention span of a gnat?

She's going to come back probably as much a puppy as she went. She will maybe listen to her new 'trainers', but I find alot of these dogs come back and DON"T listen to their owners!

Thats why I think it's soooo important to train WITH your dog, so YOU learn as she learns.. Any way you can go to this trainer and train WITH the dog??
 
#46 · (Edited)
The main problem is right now my work schedule doesn't allow me to be at home much. Pretty much 12 hours days 6 days a week right now. My wife is also travelling more than we expected. We are hoping things will settle down by mid march.

My wife is having a hard time managing her when she is home. It's not fun coming home from your own stress filled 12 hour day to a wife that is pissed off, way behind on her work and at her wits end everyday. While this solution isn't ideal, we certainly would love to be able to go to class and learn with her, we feel it's the best solution we have to get her good training and socialization right now.

What makes me feel good about these people is
A. Dennis recommended them. He went to school with them and speaks highly of them. I trust him to know what his dogs need.
B. Speaking to them they even pointed out that she wil be very close to the minimum age they accept and were pretty honest about what we should expect from this. Which was a dog that will need continuing training and will still a puppy but, will respond better through training both her and us.

The good thing is with this "lifetime" package we will be able to attend group classes afterward to hopefully make up for what we miss out on and get our education. It's not one of these deals where they just drop the dog off and say "She's trained. Good luck". They also have a mandatory class for us at the end of the board and train program.
 
#42 ·
I too think you'd be much better off getting trained at the same time was your pup :)

Sending her off by herself to board at the trainers is a bit like sending your car to the mechanic to get it turned into a highly tuned race car - yet you still don't have a license to drive the car :)

Both you and most defiantly your wife need to learn at the the she time as the puppy :) That will strengthen your bond way more than sending her off for someone else to do that !
 
#45 ·
Haha that reminds me of mine!
I was going insane with all the bites on my arms, we also tried everything.. what DID ork for us ( i´m not too proud of it but it was the only way.. maya was a bite addict) was putting a few small stones in a coke can, whenever maya turned to nibble on my hand i would shake the can to make a loud sound, that would scare her and she would stop. Now she won´t bite usanymore. Also for the teething ( so that she doesn´t destroy everything. I got an old cloth, tied it at both ends, and would wet it with cold water, she would entertain herself with it and forget the rest..

For your walks.. did you try bringing some reats with you to encourage her to walk?

and as for jumping, we used the can method for that as well, she doesn´t jump up on us, and furniture, we just don´t allow her and push her off every time she tries

hope it helps =]
 
#48 ·
I'm with the people who are not fond of sending your pup away.

I too work 6 days a week, mine are mostly 10 hour days but occasionally 11-12 hour days. I'm outside and doing very physical work--loading 25gal trees (2" caliper), 1-15 gal plant material, 40lb bags of fertilizer, 50lb bags of mulch...you get the idea. Plus, it's damm cold here and crappy weather mostly all spring. My pup was a bit older than yours in the spring, but I actually got him when I was still working in the fall. Utilize the crate. Can you come home or have someone come to let him out at lunch? It sucks getting up extra early to do some exercise, but honest, even though I felt like someone'd beaten me with a stick after work, seeing that wriggly excited pup invigorated me.

It really goes by fast. I think that you are going to miss out on a lot by not learning how to train it yourself. There are moments of "ugh" but there are many more fun and laughable moments that when your dog is older, and is approaching the end, you will be glad to be able to recall and enjoy.

I know others do it, but frankly, my opinion is unless that's the arrangement you've made with the breeder (to have them hold the pup back until you are ready for it, for competition or showing purposes), for the average pet owner, why did you get a pup if you're not willing to deal with puppyhood? It's like having a kid then sending it off to boarding school when they start to be "too much". I'm sorry if that comes across as offensive--but I have three teenagers right now, and give me a puppy any day! They're WAY faster to mature! ;)
 
#49 ·
Well you know what they say about opinions.;)

You can compare it however you want. You chose something with a negative connotation like boarding school. I choose to look at it more like ski school or band camp where my kid goes off and learns to do something I don't have the skill set to teach it.

It's only a two week program and after that we will go to the group classes with her.
 
#50 ·
Expecting a small puppy to retain a "two week program" isn't that realistic--it's not going to change like magic. And then there's the 'waves'....they go through them, so at 8-10 months, during sexual maturity, what are you going to do then? If you didn't have the time or the commitment to handle a puppy, why did you get one?
 
#51 ·
Too late to edit but I should clarify that yes, it's my opinion, so that is probably worth exactly what a penny is worth. Less than it costs to make it. ;) But "sending your kid to ski camp to teach a skill set you can't" isn't the same at all. To extrapolate further on the kid analogy, parents often have kids not knowing how to do "sports" or "music" or anything at all. But the raising, the teaching of basic manners, how to behave in society and how to act appropriately should be up to said parents. That's all that is required of your puppy right now, also. Learning house manners, and basic obedience. How to behave in your world.

That shouldn't be a "skill set you don't have".
 
#52 ·
It's been a while since this thread and I thought I should come back and update it. We did end up sending her off to K9 command for training and in spite of some board members recommendations against it, it was the best money we've spent.

We sent her off at 17 weeks, she stayed there for three weeks and came back a totally different dog. No more nipping or mouthing at all. She learned to go to place and wait there until released, sitz, platz, fuss, bleib all off leash. There is definitely something to be said for using a professional when everything you are doing isn't working.

Another thing we like about the trainer we used is that if your dog has done the board and train program they will board your dog in their house as one of their pets. So when we go on vacation at the end of June Brunie will be staying with Amy and getting some additional training.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top