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Opinion on clicker training?

6K views 43 replies 25 participants last post by  Merciel 
#1 ·
I haven't really seen a reason to use clicker training until recently I was watching videos on youtube and it really seemed to work well. I want to know what you guys think of it. What are your experiences with it and does it work well?
 
#2 ·
I have found clicker training to be the best way for me to train a new behavior. Whether it's "down", "heel", or running the weaves in agility, the clicker's ability to communicate to my dog the exact thing he did correct, made massive improvements in my training.

That said, once the behavior is learned I wean off the clicker fairly quickly and use other methods.
 
#5 ·
:thumbup: Exactly, once they're conditioned to the clicker it's very easy

In my puppy class we did clicker training, I switched for the basic obedience and they don't do clicker training and it's much harder. That alone showed me that my personal style of training matches with clicker training very well
 
#8 ·
Tons of previous threads on clicker training - well worth reading through them: German Shepherd Dog Forums - Search Results

Clicker training is simply marker training using a clicker as the marker. You can also do marker training with a verbal marker, but it's the exact same concept. Are you wondering about using a clicker in particular or marker training in general?

I use both a clicker and my voice - there are some things where a clicker works really well because it's a neutral sound that always sounds exactly the same, and it's easy to be very precise about what you're marking. But sometimes it's just easier not to have to handle a clicker and a leash and deliver treats at the same time. I keep my clicker attached to my treat bag, which helps, and it's on a wrist coil so I can have it in my hand if I want to. With the coil it's easily accessible and I can let go of it if I need to use 2 hands, like for picking up poop, but it's still there around my wrist. Attached to my treat bag I can use the same hand to click and then reach into the bag for a treat, while using the other hand to hold the leash. At home I usually train off leash.

Since you only use a clicker when you're actively training because it's just a training tool, I don't understand why people would object to a clicker because they may not always have it handy. When I'm training I *always* have my training tools handy! And when I'm not actively training, there's no need to mark and reward behavior, so it's a moot point. :shrug:
 
#12 ·
Maybe my voice just sucks, but I have noticed that the same dog learns new behaviors more quckly when I use the clicker vs. voice.

As to the question of "what do you do if you lose/forget your clicker?" I've got several at home and the training school has loaners. They're cheaper than a cup of coffee.
 
#13 ·
Karen Pryor on using a clicker vs. a vocal marker. Sounds like the main difference is that a clicker is ONLY a click, that's ALL it does and is absolutely clear to the dog. A click has no other meaning to a dog than to mark a behavior and signal the reward. Voice *can* be used for markers but we also use voice to command, correct, babble to our dogs, praise, NRM, etc.

Click vs. Voice | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

That said I do use both, a clicker and vocal marker word. However my marker word gets transitioned into a bridge later on. If I use a click that means the dog MUST get the reward (food). Later on, I transition to using the word "yes" to mark but don't always feed with every yes.
 
#15 · (Edited)
No reward marker. It's often a verbal marker, though some people have used clickers to mark negative behaviors rather than positive behaviors. This would generally be the opposite of what most people think of when doing "clicker training." In that (rare) situation, the clicker could be used as a NRM. For most people using a clicker for training, they will use the clicker to mark the expected behavior, and a NRM (like: Nope! or Opps! or I don't think so! or Not quite! or Try again!) when the behavior is close, but not right.

EDIT- here's a really clear definition from Bob Bailey:

No Reward Marker (NRM) Intended to be a signal to say "No, that isn't what I want -- try again." From the OC perspective, it's intended to add a verbal cue to extinction. However, once something has been added to the situation, it is impossible to know whether a change occurred through extinction or punishment. No Reward Marks are usually an unnecessary level of complexity in a training program. http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/glossary.htm
 
#16 ·
"Marker" vs "clicker" training

Actually, "marker training" is just another term for "clicker training." I know people who combine aversives such as shock with clicker training and call what they do "marker training" - perhaps that's why I am so opposed to the term. Clicker training is more than just using a marker signal in training. It is about specific principles in training, for example using cues rather than commands, minimizing luring and body movement, adding the cue after the animal has learned the behavior, training without correction, etc. I am a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner and I call what I do clicker training, regardless of the marker signal. See this article I wrote for more information.
 
#20 ·
Clicker training ID training



Having come from a background in the yank and thank method as taught by previous instructors decades ago before I became a professional dog trainer myself, I can tell you that clicker training is training. Everything else is just sloppy. Even if you don't do it completely correctly, you can do no harm with clicker training and your dog will still learn. I am a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner and before I went through the intensive 6 month-long program I used a clicker but I was not a "clicker trainer." I did a couple of other dog training programs, one using a clicker as a marker signal, but nothing comes close to what I learned in the KPA. Clicker training is the most powerful, most versatile and most precise method of animal training available. It is not new - it has been around for decades, but only popularized in the early 90's by Karen Pryor et al. Trying to decide between clicker training and anything else is like trying to decide whether to breathe oxygen or something else. You can't go wrong with clicker training! Your dog will become an enthusiastic learner. You will have fun. Your dog will learn fast and remember what you teach him for a very long time, perhaps forever! There is no question - clicker training is the best!
 
#26 ·
I find the clicker more effective than voice in the early stages. It is clear, concise, unchanging. A trainer tends to be better at timing with it. Some research indicates it may reach the brain differently. I always teach a voice marker in addition. I am training a 6 month old Sheltie right now and my experience with him makes me prefer the clicker for intro of beginnings of behaviors.

I am currently clicking his retrieve. Not a naturally retrieving breed so this gonna take a bit.
 
#27 ·
The clicker is more precise than using your voice, so it is a useful tool to have. I have found that my dogs learn new things very quickly with the clicker and it also helps in fine-tuning and behaviors that require multiple steps.
Just because you do clicker training, does not mean you can never train if you don't have your clicker handy... You can also train using a marker signal (a word like "yes!" or some other short word/syllable) that can be 'charged' in a similar way to the clicker, and this can be used when you don't have the clicker handy. It's just that your voice is not as sharp and singular a sound, so the effect is not quite as precise as using a clicker.
Personally I've never had a problem with "juggling" clicker/leash/treats/etc, but then again a lot of my training is not done on leash. If I am using a leash I often either have the leash looped up or I'm using a hands-free leash, I have the clicker on a strap that is around my wrist, and the treats are not in my hand unless I am actually about to hand them to the dog, so it's not really a problem.
Since I use a wrist strap for the clicker, if I want to give a treat with the same hand I just let go of the clicker and let it dangle on its strap for a second while I deliver the treat. The strap is the right length so that when I lower my hand, the clicker is right at my palm and ready to be grabbed and clicked when I need it.
 
#29 ·
Personally I've never had a problem with "juggling" clicker/leash/treats/etc, but then again a lot of my training is not done on leash. If I am using a leash I often either have the leash looped up or I'm using a hands-free leash, I have the clicker on a strap that is around my wrist, and the treats are not in my hand unless I am actually about to hand them to the dog, so it's not really a problem.
Since I use a wrist strap for the clicker, if I want to give a treat with the same hand I just let go of the clicker and let it dangle on its strap for a second while I deliver the treat. The strap is the right length so that when I lower my hand, the clicker is right at my palm and ready to be grabbed and clicked when I need it.
Both good points and a way to make using the clicker easier. No leash to hold, plus a clicker on wristband.
 
#30 ·
I like the clicker, but, IMO, this is a weak argument in its favor:

"Here's the problem: using a clicker, if you don't get what you had in mind, you just look for the next opportunity to click. Using a word, however, when you can't say 'yes' you may feel frustrated and disappointed, and your posture may actually say 'no!'"

I think it's just as likely that a person who would communicate that kind of disappointment upon not being able to give the verbal marker would be very nearly as likely to communicate it upon not being able to click.
 
#31 ·
I don't like clickers. I find them annoying. Never had a problem with training without one. If you're not in the frame of mind to work positively with your dog, you shouldn't... whether you're using voice or clicker. Your body language saying "no" could be the same whether you're using a clicker or your voice...so I fail to see the difference. Also, what happens when you're not using the clicker at some point? What if you forgot it, etc? Your voice is always there. IMO, the most important thing is consistency and timing. The clicker isn't the reward, anyway, it's simply a marker. In truth, if you're using treats to train, your dog is working for that treat, not the click.
 
#32 ·
There are alway so many reasons and excuses for we humans NOT to learn something new but put all the pressure and expectations on our puppy.

What I know, the clicker really is a fantastic tool, specially for puppies. The clicker works. It's clear, it's concise, it only means one thing.

Even better the methodology involved with clicker training WORKS. So we aren't just learning how to push on a button and make the sound (duh, that's easy :) ) it's the WHEN we push it and learning this that is key. If you don't know what 'shaping' is then you haven't been learning proper marker training.

I ALSO use verbal markers! Just because you learn to use the clicker doesn't mean you can't also have a verbal marker. But it is NOT the same. I can not physically say 'yes' as fast as I can click. And if the dog did the 'right' thing on the 'y' in yes or the right thing on the 's' in yes, TO THE DOG it makes a difference in what I marked (or thought I marked) and how they learned (or take longer to learn).

Just another tool to use that works, helps our dogs, and really isn't duplicated by our voice (no matter what people say, it's just not the same, really). So if I know it works. Know it helps my dog learn clearer and faster. And the only reason I won't do it is because it's to hard for me (whine whine whine :) ) ...............just seems like I'm removing a tool from my training tool box.
 
#33 ·
My feeling on clickers is that they are only one tool that can work in training. If you can use it correctly it's a good tool. If it's too hard to control or you can't get the timing right, it's worse than useless, it can interfere with proper training. I took a class that required clickers, and at least half the people there couldn't use them and their dogs never benefited from that training. It takes skill. I ended up using a voice marker so my hands were free, which worked just as well for me with a very active puppy. Until that class, I'd never used one before.
 
#36 ·
I know it's crazy but they really can tell the difference. I've attended classes with people with different clickers, and ones that the instructor handed out all the same to the class, and the dogs do know.

Not sure if it's just based on the sound or also the location the click is coming from.

Guess it's just another circumstance where our pups show us they can be much smarter then we generally give them credit for....

:paw:
 
#38 ·
"Clicker training" has come to mean a certain type of training to most people, usually positive reinforcement only training while using a clicker as a marker.

In reality, a clicker is simply a tool that can be used with ANY type of training. No matter what method you use, EVERYONE uses some type of marker. Many simply use their voice, a clap or pat of their hand, click of their tongue, snap of their fingers.

I personally prefer using a clicker when I am doing any sort of new training. Of course, I do a lot of trick training with Zeke, so I find a click the easiest way to associate an exact move I desire. The instant he does what I want, he gets a click. Clear and precise, no confusion or mistaking what I want.

Of course, the basics such as sit, down, stay, come, etc... were taught extremely young and picked up on fast. Therefor, the clicker was quickly pushed to the side while training and proofing the basics, as once I fully teach a command I no longer use the clicker while proofing. So when I'm walking around in public, working on proofing my dog's heel, there is no need for me to be carrying around a clicker. And since I wouldn't be training a new trick or command out in public surrounded by distractions, I am never without a clicker (BTW, in a pinch the bottle tops that pop up when a drink is first opened work pretty good when you can't find/buy a clicker.)
 
#40 ·
What are your training goals?

There are tons of free web videos on YouTube for basic clicker training.

For basics and tricks;
Zsians1
Kikopup

If you are looking for more in depth videos, Susan Garrett has some videos that are highly regarded in agility.

IMHO, for marker training obedience, you can't beat the Leerburg videos, especially The Power of Training Dogs with Food with Michael Ellis. He uses his voice instead of a clicker.

David Winners
 
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