Hates "Restraint"

[ladyfreckles]

I'm a bit annoyed at myself right now for this. Viking was always an angel at the vets. He didn't bat an eye at the shots, he didn't mind his ears being checked, etc. His only vice at vets is that we still can't get him to be still for a rectal. At home I've been working with him to make sure he's used to having his paws, ears, etc touched. I do a little bit (just a minute or two) every day just because as he gets older his energy levels are rising and he is getting squirmier.

Well today at the vet, he would not stay still at all to get his ears checked out. He actually growled at the assistant when she gently held him in place (she wasn't full on restraining him, just blocking him so he couldn't walk across the table). When they gave him a vaccine via the nose he bobbed his head a lot and when they gave him one via the shoulder... you would think they were murdering him. I was petting and hand feeding him the entire time like always and he just ignored the food and tried to squirm and get away.

I feel like this is my fault, because I haven't been working enough with him on being handled. I was always afraid that if I did too much I'd over stress him so I kept everything short, light and fun. He's been socialized well with strangers and does not mind them one bit. He has only growled at one person before and that is our housemate (he was riling Viking up and has since been reprimanded).

Oddly enough, when they were showing us how to trim nails (I previously just filed them) he would not allow himself to be held but platzed and relaxed no problem while they touched his front paws.

I did hold him for a short period and he squirmed like **** but he did not growl at me. I'm not sure what's going on here. I am intending to do private training though to work on a few things so I'll bring it up with the trainer... but I thought I'd go to you guys. What am I doing wrong? I've never hurt him and his handling sessions always end with him all smiling and happy so I don't get what caused this 180 in vet office behavior.

[Wolfiesmom]

Some dogs just don't like the vet. I think they realize after a while, that it may hurt a little when they go there. I had to drag Chief into the vet when he was alive, and he used to lift his leg and pee on the wall in front of the vet every time. Wolfie has to sit in my lap with his head buried in my shoulder in order for the vet to examine him. I socialized the heck out of both of these dogs, and brought them to the vet just to say hello or to pay a bill. I got them used to being handled. It didn't help at all once it came to exam time.

[Wild Wolf]

Here's my philosophy.

At home, I prepared Hunter for examinations (I am an Animal Care technician, so I know the routine) weekly. I touch his paws roughly, I mess with his ears, I pull up his lips and examine his mouth, I check his "man parts" and move his body for motion.

When it comes time to visit the vet, nothing phased Hunter. He fell asleep through his first three examinations and vaccines. I make sure Hunter understands that I expect him to stand still, that I am here to protect him, and that I have a no-nonsense way of tolerating struggling and noisiness. He knows the command "enough" and he knows how to "wait", so I use both of those to shape his behaviour in these situations.

[ladyfreckles]

Originally Posted by Wild Wolf

Here's my philosophy.

At home, I prepared Hunter for examinations (I am an Animal Care technician, so I know the routine) weekly. I touch his paws roughly, I mess with his ears, I pull up his lips and examine his mouth, I check his "man parts" and move his body for motion.

When it comes time to visit the vet, nothing phased Hunter. He fell asleep through his first three examinations and vaccines. I make sure Hunter understands that I expect him to stand still, that I am here to protect him, and that I have a no-nonsense way of tolerating struggling and noisiness. He knows the command "enough" and he knows how to "wait", so I use both of those to shape his behaviour in these situations.

I need someone to help me with that. I'll try doing it a little rougher next time.

What annoyed me more is there was a substitute vet in and he complained that my dog wasn't "trained" well enough and he was being "aggressive". He acted afraid of my 11 week old puppy. I'm irritated with how Viking misbehaved, but it was a complete surprise and he almost always behaved at home when I handled his ears, mouth, etc. It's not like I just let him run loose like some wild dog! I made a request that next time, they're to call me if my regular vet isn't in so I can reschedule.

Are there any "how to" articles I can find on what specifically to do? How do I know I'm not over stressing him when I try to do it and he's still struggling?


Edit: yes, I just tried again. He sat relatively still while I thoroughly checked his ears, teeth, etc. Very little squirming. wth?

[FG167]

I practice calm restraints, both with sit and down, on all of my dogs from day one. It's a Brenda Aloff technique. I recommend buying her puppy book and reading that section to learn how to do it. It came in handy when my aggressive adult Dutch Shepherd needed to have procedures done at the vet. It also allows my high drive, high energy GSD puppy to be held on his side, calmly, until I let him up.

ETA: I also practiced this behavior other places besides my house - at the park, at a friends', in training classes when he was being a mouthy snot LOL

[Lilie]

Viking is an 11 week old puppy! Don't try to expect so much from him. I don't think you need to rock his world at this point. You saw what made him nervous. Work on those things taking your time and using patience.

I can't see how a vet would question your training ability with an 11 week old puppy. Tsk. Tsk.

Every time you take Viking someplace and he has a reaction that doesn't make you happy, use that as a learning tool. Work on it. I don't think stepping up your use of force (at this age) is going to help, but may just teach him to panic.

"Wait" & "Enough" are great tools as well. But remember Viking is a baby, cut him some slack.

[CassandGunnar]

I agree, puppy "phase" and don't start beating yourself up. Keep working like you have been. He may have been picking up on energy from you and the vet.
I'm sure he'll be fine. Puppies go through fear and butthead phases.
You know how good Viking is.

[Lilie]

Ladyfreckles - I forgot to add that you are doing a great job with this pup! There is no need for this little adventure to rock your world either. Cut yourself some slack too!

[RocketDog]

You know I am not an "expert" on dogs, or puppies.

But here's my .02, which is probably all it's worth, LOL

I think much has to do with how the breeder has handled/not handled them. I know mine has 3 kids ages 7-13 and they got handled A LOT. Also, I did make sure to constantly handle Rocket and hold him on his back and stroke between his leg and stomach, just for a minute or two and settle him. It's harder now, of course, that he's almost 75 lbs, but I still do it. I also started the examination stuff the day I got him, and had all the people that came over do it and the firefighters at DH's station do it too....not now, but for the first few weeks I did.

Also, make sure you're projecting calmness, confidence, and a happy, easy-going attitude at the vet's. If you feel like you don't like the attendants, you might search until you find a vet where you like everyone. My techs LOVE Rocket, and that helps. Of course, I've been going there for 20 years, and between the dogs and the cats, I've been frequently, ha ha.

And---what Lilie said.

[fishernut]

What a strange coincidence....Shovel and I just got home from the vet after having a very similar experience. This is Shovel's third time there, and in anticipation, I took him for a nice long off-leash walk/run on the beach (well, frozen beach ) today. My main problem with him at previous vet visits was he always pulled like mad in the waiting room trying to get to the other dogs, and would not settle down.
Today he was a relative angel in the waiting room! There was a large husky in there whining and straining to get to Shovel, but I just had Shovel look at me, and put him in a down (which would only last for a few minutes at a time, but was still pretty impressive to me and several others in the waiting room!). I even got a compliment on how well he listened, lol!

The problem was when we the vet came in the examination room, and wanted him up on the table. My vet office has 3 vets working there, so this was the first time we've seen this one (the last one gave Shovel his exam and shots while on the floor, and Shovel was great!).
I lifted him to the table, and he started squirming like mad--the vet AND her assistant had to hold him down. I could see how much Shovel did not like the situation and tried to clam him down by talking softly to him and petting him. When the vet tried to examine his ears and mouth he nipped her! She grabbed his muzzle and said NO BITING! I was mortified, but also a bit stressed at the way they were restraining him on the table (he was struggling quite a bit). I requested that she put him down on the floor to finish his exam, and give him his shots. She reluctantly complied...He did a lot better once he was back down on the floor, but I could tell he was still uncomfortable.
I'm thinking she thinks I have a problem dog now--thing is, he's never acted this way before at the vets!

Shovel is 16 weeks old now, and 45 lbs.
Should I be concerned? Could I have made the situation better by trying to hold him myself, instead of letting the tech and vet do most of the restraining? I have been gently feeling his paws, ears, looking at his teeth, clipping his nails, etc since he was 8 weeks old, and he's never had a problem with it.

When we went back out into the waiting room afterwards he was well behaved.

ladyfreckles, sorry I don't have any advice for you, and I don't mean to hijack. I'm just glad I saw your thread! The advice given so far has been great, and I look forward to any other imput!