Socializing Puppy to Other Dogs

[Kaz]

Hey,
I am a new pup owner and I feel your pain. My Manfred is almost 4 months old. After he got his 3rd set of booseter shots, I started to let him socialize with other dogs. ONLY after inquiring each and every time of the other dog was up to date on shots / flea/tick etc.

I live in Beverly hills, we have a LOT of toy dogs which are utterly spoilt by rich owners, and which just bark their flipping heads off.

Prior to socializing, Manfred ignored them.

Then came the day when he met a dog. It was a small dog. Manfred showed aggression just as the other dog did.

My experience :

Shoving things in his mouth is kind of a pipe dream. While going for a walk, I hold his leash with 2 hands in the prescribed method for effective dog walking, in my pockets are my phone, keys, card, cigar, lighter, bags for his poo, and hand sanitizing wipes. I refuse to carry a bag with a toy.

Manfred's experiences were not good each time he faced a smaller dog, then came a break through.

On Christmas day as we were walking back, Manfred met this large husky. The husky's owner was chill, so I asked if I could train my dog in socializing with his husky, he said OK.

Manfred and the husky approached each other. Husky curious, manfred curious and scared. Manfred barked ... Husky taught him who is BOSS. The husky showed his teeth, growled, and put him down. Manfred yelped and backed off.

I made sure the other owner had his dog firmly under control, and all this time I was calming manfred, holding his muzzle, saying NO, grabbing him by the loose fur/skin around his neck.

Eventually Manfred backed off.

The husky left.

Next day: we come across a 100 lb akita. Same story. The akita established to manfred he could not mess around with every dog. Manfred barked in the beginning, then backed off.

After that, it became easier.

Now when we pass other dogs, Manfred does stiffen, some times he pulls at the leash, but he does not bark. Often at times he does not even react.

Today we were pleasantly surprised as we walked past a crazy chihuahua, which was barking his head off and pulling at the leash to get at Manfred,
Manfred stiffened, then ignored him and we kept walking.

(BTW I absolutely, positively loathe chihuahuas!)

Also one more thing, in both cases (of husky, akita and other cases), we made the dogs sniff each other's behinds. It helped a great deal.

Your pup thinks the world is his, since he is able to mess around with his parents. He just needs to learn that there are bigger dogs which can kick his a55. Once he learns that, he will calm down.

And yeah, consistent loud NO, key command words to dissuade, firm holding of the muzzle, diverting his attention, getting in his line of vision of the other dog, forcing his behind down, so he sits... are some things you can do every time.

Its a slow process, there are no short cuts.

Good luck.

[onyx'girl]

Originally Posted by Kaz

Hey,
I am a new pup owner and I feel your pain. My Manfred is almost 4 months old. After he got his 3rd set of booseter shots, I started to let him socialize with other dogs. ONLY after inquiring each and every time of the other dog was up to date on shots / flea/tick etc.
I live in Beverly hills, we have a LOT of toy dogs which are utterly spoilt by rich owners, and which just bark their flipping heads off.
Prior to socializing, Manfred ignored them.
Then came the day when he met a dog. It was a small dog. Manfred showed aggression just as the other dog did.
My experience :
Shoving things in his mouth is kind of a pipe dream. While going for a walk, I hold his leash with 2 hands in the prescribed method for effective dog walking, in my pockets are my phone, keys, card, cigar, lighter, bags for his poo, and hand sanitizing wipes. I refuse to carry a bag with a toy.

I don't know why you refuse to carry a toy, yet carry sanitizing wipes????

Manfred's experiences were not good each time he faced a smaller dog, then came a break through.
On Christmas day as we were walking back, Manfred met this large husky. The husky's owner was chill, so I asked if I could train my dog in socializing with his husky, he said OK.
Manfred and the husky approached each other. Husky curious, manfred curious and scared. Manfred barked ... Husky taught him who is BOSS. The husky showed his teeth, growled, and put him down. Manfred yelped and backed off.
I made sure the other owner had his dog firmly under control, and all this time I was calming manfred, holding his muzzle, saying NO, grabbing him by the loose fur/skin around his neck.

So you made your puppy vulnerable by holding his muzzle with a strange dog sniffing all over his bubble? That isn't a way to build confidence, IMO

Eventually Manfred backed off.

The husky left.

Next day: we come across a 100 lb akita. Same story. The akita established to manfred he could not mess around with every dog. Manfred barked in the beginning, then backed off.

After that, it became easier.

Now when we pass other dogs, Manfred does stiffen, some times he pulls at the leash, but he does not bark. Often at times he does not even react.

Today we were pleasantly surprised as we walked past a crazy chihuahua, which was barking his head off and pulling at the leash to get at Manfred,
Manfred stiffened, then ignored him and we kept walking.

(BTW I absolutely, positively loathe chihuahuas!)

Also one more thing, in both cases (of husky, akita and other cases), we made the dogs sniff each other's behinds. It helped a great deal.

Your pup thinks the world is his, since he is able to mess around with his parents. He just needs to learn that there are bigger dogs which can kick his a55. Once he learns that, he will calm down.

And yeah, consistent loud NO, key command words to dissuade, firm holding of the muzzle, diverting his attention, getting in his line of vision of the other dog, forcing his behind down, so he sits... are some things you can do every time.

Commanding NO? Dissuade what? I wouldn't hold a baby puppy's muzzle or force his behind down to make him sit. Physical force isn't good for his structure or his snout. I would carry a treat and lure him into a sit...where the nose goes, the butt follows. And dogs will usually counter the pressure with pushing back.

Its a slow process, there are no short cuts.
Good luck.

I hope your puppy doesn't have any issues with the way you are socializing him, you'll know in the next few months whether your methods are working.

[Anthony8858]

Originally Posted by Kaz

Hey,
I am a new pup owner and I feel your pain. My Manfred is almost 4 months old. After he got his 3rd set of booseter shots, I started to let him socialize with other dogs. ONLY after inquiring each and every time of the other dog was up to date on shots / flea/tick etc.

I live in Beverly hills, we have a LOT of toy dogs which are utterly spoilt by rich owners, and which just bark their flipping heads off.

Prior to socializing, Manfred ignored them.

Then came the day when he met a dog. It was a small dog. Manfred showed aggression just as the other dog did.

My experience :

Shoving things in his mouth is kind of a pipe dream. While going for a walk, I hold his leash with 2 hands in the prescribed method for effective dog walking, in my pockets are my phone, keys, card, cigar, lighter, bags for his poo, and hand sanitizing wipes. I refuse to carry a bag with a toy.

Manfred's experiences were not good each time he faced a smaller dog, then came a break through.

On Christmas day as we were walking back, Manfred met this large husky. The husky's owner was chill, so I asked if I could train my dog in socializing with his husky, he said OK.

Manfred and the husky approached each other. Husky curious, manfred curious and scared. Manfred barked ... Husky taught him who is BOSS. The husky showed his teeth, growled, and put him down. Manfred yelped and backed off.

I made sure the other owner had his dog firmly under control, and all this time I was calming manfred, holding his muzzle, saying NO, grabbing him by the loose fur/skin around his neck.

Eventually Manfred backed off.

The husky left.

Next day: we come across a 100 lb akita. Same story. The akita established to manfred he could not mess around with every dog. Manfred barked in the beginning, then backed off.

After that, it became easier.

Now when we pass other dogs, Manfred does stiffen, some times he pulls at the leash, but he does not bark. Often at times he does not even react.

Today we were pleasantly surprised as we walked past a crazy chihuahua, which was barking his head off and pulling at the leash to get at Manfred,
Manfred stiffened, then ignored him and we kept walking.

(BTW I absolutely, positively loathe chihuahuas!)

Also one more thing, in both cases (of husky, akita and other cases), we made the dogs sniff each other's behinds. It helped a great deal.

Your pup thinks the world is his, since he is able to mess around with his parents. He just needs to learn that there are bigger dogs which can kick his a55. Once he learns that, he will calm down.

And yeah, consistent loud NO, key command words to dissuade, firm holding of the muzzle, diverting his attention, getting in his line of vision of the other dog, forcing his behind down, so he sits... are some things you can do every time.

Its a slow process, there are no short cuts.

Good luck.

I have a few concerns with what's transpired here.

Maybe you can start a separate thread about it.

I'd like to see how others feel a situation like that should be handled.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by Kaz

Your pup thinks the world is his, since he is able to mess around with his parents. He just needs to learn that there are bigger dogs which can kick his a55. Once he learns that, he will calm down.

Wow................Kaz, you need to really read up on what you need to do to properly socialize and raise a CONFIDENT and secure puppy to be a confident and wonderful adult. Because I believe you are not looking at the puppy raising properly at all.

There is a reason puppies are able to mess around APPROPRIATELY with the adult dogs and littermates that RESPONSIBLE owners put their puppies in contact with.

Because the puppies learn that they are wonderful, other dogs are fun, but there are still rules that get taught to them in an appropriate and not forceful manner by the other adults and pups.

What you need to be REALLY aware of is that the very worst thing we can do is mess up this socialization and end up with a fear aggressive puppy.

Cause once you get that, it's almost impossible to fix and you now have a dog you can never trust.

Manfred and the husky approached each other. Husky curious, manfred curious and scared. Manfred barked ... Husky taught him who is BOSS. The husky showed his teeth, growled, and put him down. Manfred yelped and backed off.

I made sure the other owner had his dog firmly under control, and all this time I was calming manfred, holding his muzzle, saying NO, grabbing him by the loose fur/skin around his neck.

Eventually Manfred backed off.

If any dog 'taught my puppy who is BOSS' just cause my puppy barked at them, I'd probably kick the living crap out of the dog and be furious at the owner for not controlling THEIR dog.

Puppies are NOT supposed to be attacked by other dogs, specially during the first year when going thru all their fear stages.

And how you, in any way, think that 'calming manfred, holding his muzzle, saying NO and grabbing him' in ANY WAY taught him to be happy and confident and heading out in the world with his head held high and his LEADER taking charge and care of him................ I don't see it.

In my opinion you failed you puppy by setting him up for failure to allow the Husky to attack him in the first place. Then you not only didn't step in to take charge of the situation and show the puppy you would take care of the Husky, YOU FORCED THE PUPPY TO REMAIN IN A SCARY SITUATION WHILE REPRIMANDING HIM!

We need to lead our puppies, not force them. We need to set them up for success, not failure. Guide them and protect them as they grow to be the strong and happy, confident puppies excited to be out in the world.

I think sometimes people get embarrassed when their puppies bark, and since they don't know what to do, they over react either dragging their puppies away, or forcing them to behave. When there are other ways to set them up to LEARN how to behave and meet/greet. Watch this video around 2 minutes and see how the puppies behave.

German Shepherd puppy 15 Weeks - Socialization at Dog Fair - YouTube

German Shepherd puppy 15 Weeks - Socialization at Dog Fair - YouTube

Puppy Socialization and habituation is a crucial part of your puppy's development and training

Developmental Stages

Dog Tip: Puppy Socialization: What It Is, Why It's Essential, and How To Do It

There is a reason most of us go to puppy/dog classes. Because most of us aren't dogs ( ) and don't talk dog, or weren't raised as a dog, so don't THINK like a dog! So raising a puppy to be a great dog is a learned skill for us. I know I'd much rather learn from someone who's raised and trained many many dogs than fumble thru the best I can with my poor puppy the one taking the brunt of my learning.

[onyx'girl]

MRL.....thank you for posting that, I am glad you detailed what I was thinking, just didn't have the time to type it. And of course you said it much better than I could(and nicer)
I hope Kaz will see your informative post so his puppy will be successful!!

[Barb E]

Jane and MLR *Like*

[JakodaCD OA]

I can't even begin, so I'll just say I agree with MRL

[kitmcd]

Along this same subject. What is the best way to deal with a puppy (5 months) who absolutely loves other dogs?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she likes them but it sure makes some situations difficult. For instance, when we walk from our house we pass two other houses with dogs on invisible fences (dead end road so no way to avoid). These dogs are friendly, but I don't want my pup (Isa) to learn to drag me to every dog she wants to see. I've tried high ticket treats (no way, the dogs are much more attractive). I've had her sit until she calms (quits pulling and barking), but the minute I start to walk again, she is off again. By the time we get past these houses, I am exhausted!

Have worked with trainer in group lessons and she calms down there after the initial meeting with dogs. I really would like to get her where we can pass other dogs and she will ignore them. Am I expecting too much at her age? Or am I totally handling this wrong (most likely answer)?

[onyx'girl]

I posted on the other thread about carrying a high value toy/engage your pup...here is the thread that Kaz post was taken from: It all falls apart when we pass another walker, or worse, another dog...
I found out thru training in SchH how the engagement between the handler and dog is so very important. And then showing the pup/dog that they are highly rewarded for that engagement. Though it does depend on the dog. If you continue to have problems with reactivity as the pup matures then I would recommend going with the book/exercises in Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt. The exercises help build confidence and limit corrections with a reactive dog. It works.
Also look at the Michael Ellis links I put on that thread...free!

[kitmcd]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

I posted on the other thread about carrying a high value toy/engage your pup...here is the thread that Kaz post was taken from: It all falls apart when we pass another walker, or worse, another dog...
I found out thru training in SchH how the engagement between the handler and dog is so very important. And then showing the pup/dog that they are highly rewarded for that engagement. Though it does depend on the dog. If you continue to have problems with reactivity as the pup matures then I would recommend going with the book/exercises in Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt. The exercises help build confidence and limit corrections with a reactive dog. It works.
Also look at the Michael Ellis links I put on that thread...free!

Thanks. I will order the Control Unleashed. I have tried her favorite toys, but again the other dogs are just too desirable. If we meet another dog who has their owner with them, she does much better (guess because they are under some control instead of excitedly running about). In those cases, I can get her to sit and let the other dog approach. Then she goes into her "I am so happy to see you, lick you and want to be bff!"