Frustrated ....recall and housebreaking

kitmcd · 12-09-2011, 05:43 PM

My WGSD is 5 months tomorrow. She is wonderful in many aspects...great temperament, trains easily to many behaviors, cuddler, good car riding behavior, loves kids and other dogs, goes many places with me with great behavior.

However, two of the most important things (in my mind at least) I am having trouble with. She still will potty in house, with me right there in room (happens every 3 or 4 days). She rarely will "ask" to go out...it seems it is up to me to anticipate and sometimes I get it wrong (like she was just out 30min prior to accident). I praise and praise every time she does it "right". Also, I am home most of day (just gone for couple hours stretches).

The other issue is her recall. We live on 17 acres and other than "potty times" I usually don't have her on a lead when I am doing outside work. Until recently she always stayed close by or at least within sight. Today, I was working outside and she took off, ran to two neighbor's houses. She absolutely would not stop or come back. Eventually, with me trailing her I got her back on property and brought her in.

I hate the idea of having all this property and her not being able to run and explore some. She recalls very well in the house and in "class". Until today I would have said her recall outside was excellent too. Now though, I don't feel like I can have her off lead. I'm not sure that dragging around a long line will work for her as the property is heavily wooded through about 10 acres and the rest has lots of plantings etc for a line to catch on.

Suggestions on either of these?

Kira81410 · 12-09-2011, 07:29 PM

I have a 6 month old WGSD, and I had been having similar problems with her until about a month ago.
Kira would potty inside (only number 1) and I would take her right outside and she would just stare at me.. all of a sudden it was like something "clicked" and she just got it. She started asking to go out. I was doing everything that it sounds like you're doing... I think that it may just take time, but eventually she will get it. Just keep up with her, and be consistent. Don't give her any reason to think that potty inside is OK.
With the recall, I did not have problems with Kira, but my 1 year old Golden Retriever will not come to me outside unless I have treats or do something really interesting. Try getting her attention, and then have HER chase YOU. Do not chase her, because then that will quickly become the norm. Grab some toys before you go outside, and make coming to you a game.
I hope that helps you at all!
Good luck with your sweet girl!
-Megan

kitmcd · 12-09-2011, 07:40 PM

Thanks Kira. The accidents in the house have gotten fewer, but just when I think she's gotten it, there it is!

I will work more on recall with the treats and toys. Suddenly she just seems so distracted by EVERYTHING that it is hard to get her attention. I guess everything in the house is familiar, but the wide, wonderful outdoors offers so many alluring things!

I just got off phone with a trainer who was recommended by several people and vet. Will start work with him here at home in a week. Hopefully he will help me see what I can do better.

chelle · 12-09-2011, 10:02 PM

Understand that every failed recall sets you far, far, far, far back. You just can't afford failed recalls. You say there are too many things for her to snag on but you know, that could be a good thing. It'll sure allow you to keep control if snagging the long lead on brush slows her down. I mean, this girl has 17 ACRES of land? Heck, I'd want to go explore, too! Who could blame her? Can you do any cheap fencing for now in a smaller area?

I'd put a lot of focus on the recall now. There are a ton of threads.

I'm NOT an expert, but I can share what's worked so well for me.

Only use the come or c'mere or whatever command when you feel 99.9% sure she is going to come and treat, treat, treat. Consider every failed recall as a major failure. At first, maybe do little, short recalls and treat her every time. Then lessen the treats used. I like to mix this up with offering some super high value treats when he's not expecting it at all. At five months, I probably treated 3 of 5 recalls.(?) Then voila! a MEATBALL treat for the recall, out of the blue! Woohoo! Then maybe nothing for the next one... etc and so on... At seven months, he's getting less treats for the recall but I still throw in the curveball high value one here and there.

As for the potty stuff, you could try a bell on the door. Before my pup learned to "tell" me, that's what I did and it worked like a charm. Just hang a bell on the door you use to go potty and every time you go out to potty, ring the bell and say "let's go potty" or whatever. It probably won't take long before your dog will be out there ringing the bell by herself. You said you praise when she does it right, but what about when she pees in front of you? What do you do? Catching her in the act is critical. Don't yell at her, but do make a big hulabaloo

No, no, no! POTTY OUTSIDE!

BR870 · 12-09-2011, 10:24 PM

5 months to a year absolutely is not the time to allow a GSD off leash. Bad recall is common during this phase. They are pushing boundaries and generally being a teenager. You simply cannot allow them off leash unless in a yard during this period IMO...

chelle · 12-09-2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR870

5 months to a year absolutely is not the time to allow a GSD off leash. Bad recall is common during this phase. They are pushing boundaries and generally being a teenager. You simply cannot allow them off leash unless in a yard during this period IMO...

I can't agree with this unless you didn't have the groundwork done early on.

If you DID your groundwork when they were oh so little, it stays with them. They may push the bounds, true, and then perhaps they go back to a long lead while you work it more, but that just indicates more recall work to me.

I can't imagine just leashing them up at five months because they're pre-adolescents?

I think it goes to the dog/owner bond as well. If you've developed a strong bond and that dog is used to being offleash and is in a safe environment, why leash 'em up just because they're pre-teen?

Oops, edited to say: I don't think the OP should allow this dog offleash freedom at all. Not at this point! If that's what you meant, I do certainly agree with you.

Kira81410 · 12-09-2011, 11:08 PM

I agree with chelle and rob... Kira is at that "brat" stage where I apparently don't exist. most of the time our quick trips outside are on a leash because i have to go to work and don't have 10 minutes to let her explore.... but she will come to me if I call her. She has had too many pieces of chicken/cheese given at that front door not to come to me. It may take her longer now (step step... sniff... step step...sniff) but she has a solid recall. I think a good mixture of leash time (enforcing boundaries... and reward her too when she's close to you on a leash) and off-leash time (work on recall) is good. But like chelle... I'm not an expert.

chelle · 12-09-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kira81410

She has had too many pieces of chicken/cheese given at that front door not to come to me.

Just food for thought, so to speak, but your dog will surely figure out, if she hasn't already! that a treat at the door then means, she's goin' IN the door! That's bribery vs true recall.

Kira81410 · 12-09-2011, 11:19 PM

Very true, chelle. Never really thought about it that way. We'll have to mix it up a little bit to make sure she gets it

kitmcd · 12-09-2011, 11:24 PM

Thanks for responses.

As for the potty. I do have bells on front and back doors and I either jingle them or put her paw up to make them jingle. Been doing this since she was about 10 weeks. The two older dogs in house now use the bells, but pup doesn't. I must say though that she is always within my sight and we are usually not near the doors. Her only signal so far is sometimes a whine and when I ask "do you need to go out", she will then run towards door.

I guess I took for granted that the outside free play time would continue as it was from 8 to 19 weeks. She would follow me around property and always, always stay within a few yards from me. She would follow as I raked, or weeded, whatever. The older dogs are on invisible fence and she would romp, play and chase with them.

How do you get them enough exercise if they are never off leash? I'm 56 and certainly can't jog with her and my slow walking isn't much exercise.

12-09-2011, 05:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
kitmcd Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 192	Frustrated ....recall and housebreaking My WGSD is 5 months tomorrow. She is wonderful in many aspects...great temperament, trains easily to many behaviors, cuddler, good car riding behavior, loves kids and other dogs, goes many places with me with great behavior. However, two of the most important things (in my mind at least) I am having trouble with. She still will potty in house, with me right there in room (happens every 3 or 4 days). She rarely will "ask" to go out...it seems it is up to me to anticipate and sometimes I get it wrong (like she was just out 30min prior to accident). I praise and praise every time she does it "right". Also, I am home most of day (just gone for couple hours stretches). The other issue is her recall. We live on 17 acres and other than "potty times" I usually don't have her on a lead when I am doing outside work. Until recently she always stayed close by or at least within sight. Today, I was working outside and she took off, ran to two neighbor's houses. She absolutely would not stop or come back. Eventually, with me trailing her I got her back on property and brought her in. I hate the idea of having all this property and her not being able to run and explore some. She recalls very well in the house and in "class". Until today I would have said her recall outside was excellent too. Now though, I don't feel like I can have her off lead. I'm not sure that dragging around a long line will work for her as the property is heavily wooded through about 10 acres and the rest has lots of plantings etc for a line to catch on. Suggestions on either of these?

12-09-2011, 10:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
chelle Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 2,863	Understand that every failed recall sets you far, far, far, far back. You just can't afford failed recalls. You say there are too many things for her to snag on but you know, that could be a good thing. It'll sure allow you to keep control if snagging the long lead on brush slows her down. I mean, this girl has 17 ACRES of land? Heck, I'd want to go explore, too! Who could blame her? Can you do any cheap fencing for now in a smaller area? I'd put a lot of focus on the recall now. There are a ton of threads. I'm NOT an expert, but I can share what's worked so well for me. Only use the come or c'mere or whatever command when you feel 99.9% sure she is going to come and treat, treat, treat. Consider every failed recall as a major failure. At first, maybe do little, short recalls and treat her every time. Then lessen the treats used. I like to mix this up with offering some super high value treats when he's not expecting it at all. At five months, I probably treated 3 of 5 recalls.(?) Then voila! a MEATBALL treat for the recall, out of the blue! Woohoo! Then maybe nothing for the next one... etc and so on... At seven months, he's getting less treats for the recall but I still throw in the curveball high value one here and there. As for the potty stuff, you could try a bell on the door. Before my pup learned to "tell" me, that's what I did and it worked like a charm. Just hang a bell on the door you use to go potty and every time you go out to potty, ring the bell and say "let's go potty" or whatever. It probably won't take long before your dog will be out there ringing the bell by herself. You said you praise when she does it right, but what about when she pees in front of you? What do you do? Catching her in the act is critical. Don't yell at her, but do make a big hulabaloo No, no, no! POTTY OUTSIDE! __________________ Dolly Eskie 6/03 Suri Shiba 10/07 Bailey WGSD/Husky x 5/11 CGC Bailey's brother Tucker (rescue/foster dude) Tiger kitty '96 Information is power

12-09-2011, 10:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
BR870 Master Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 828	5 months to a year absolutely is not the time to allow a GSD off leash. Bad recall is common during this phase. They are pushing boundaries and generally being a teenager. You simply cannot allow them off leash unless in a yard during this period IMO... __________________ Rob Ezra von der Rennbahn Princess Abigail "Abbie" Kai (RIP) Loki (RIP)

12-09-2011, 07:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kira81410 New Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8	I have a 6 month old WGSD, and I had been having similar problems with her until about a month ago. Kira would potty inside (only number 1) and I would take her right outside and she would just stare at me.. all of a sudden it was like something "clicked" and she just got it. She started asking to go out. I was doing everything that it sounds like you're doing... I think that it may just take time, but eventually she will get it. Just keep up with her, and be consistent. Don't give her any reason to think that potty inside is OK. With the recall, I did not have problems with Kira, but my 1 year old Golden Retriever will not come to me outside unless I have treats or do something really interesting. Try getting her attention, and then have HER chase YOU. Do not chase her, because then that will quickly become the norm. Grab some toys before you go outside, and make coming to you a game. I hope that helps you at all! Good luck with your sweet girl! -Megan

12-09-2011, 07:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
kitmcd Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 192	Thanks Kira. The accidents in the house have gotten fewer, but just when I think she's gotten it, there it is! I will work more on recall with the treats and toys. Suddenly she just seems so distracted by EVERYTHING that it is hard to get her attention. I guess everything in the house is familiar, but the wide, wonderful outdoors offers so many alluring things! I just got off phone with a trainer who was recommended by several people and vet. Will start work with him here at home in a week. Hopefully he will help me see what I can do better.

12-09-2011, 11:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kira81410 New Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8	I agree with chelle and rob... Kira is at that "brat" stage where I apparently don't exist. most of the time our quick trips outside are on a leash because i have to go to work and don't have 10 minutes to let her explore.... but she will come to me if I call her. She has had too many pieces of chicken/cheese given at that front door not to come to me. It may take her longer now (step step... sniff... step step...sniff) but she has a solid recall. I think a good mixture of leash time (enforcing boundaries... and reward her too when she's close to you on a leash) and off-leash time (work on recall) is good. But like chelle... I'm not an expert.

12-09-2011, 11:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kira81410 New Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8	Very true, chelle. Never really thought about it that way. We'll have to mix it up a little bit to make sure she gets it

12-09-2011, 11:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
kitmcd Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 192	Thanks for responses. As for the potty. I do have bells on front and back doors and I either jingle them or put her paw up to make them jingle. Been doing this since she was about 10 weeks. The two older dogs in house now use the bells, but pup doesn't. I must say though that she is always within my sight and we are usually not near the doors. Her only signal so far is sometimes a whine and when I ask "do you need to go out", she will then run towards door. I guess I took for granted that the outside free play time would continue as it was from 8 to 19 weeks. She would follow me around property and always, always stay within a few yards from me. She would follow as I raked, or weeded, whatever. The older dogs are on invisible fence and she would romp, play and chase with them. How do you get them enough exercise if they are never off leash? I'm 56 and certainly can't jog with her and my slow walking isn't much exercise.

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