What is a "firm" correction really?

[AthenaClimbs]

I've heard you have to be firm and stern with a german shepherd but can someone elaborate? I can give you some background.
I have an almost 6 month old girl. I have never struck her except batted her on the nose when she's a terror outside and inside (jumping up and biting me everywhere). When I am laying on the couch it is impossible for her to do anything else, she IMMEDIATELY jumps up on top of me and tries to engage with me/play/even bite (and yes I play with her but I can only play ball for so long and want some quiet time too) I'd really prefer not to have to keep her in her crate all the time (unless that's what folks do with a pup this age)! She's well exercised and we play together and I train with her through out the day. We often put her in a crate to maintain our sanity but I know that's not the right fix only a temporary resolution. When she jumps on me on the couch, i "firmly" yell NO and off and if falls on deaf ears. I pull her off on her leash and she jumps back up excitedly. How firm exactly do I need to be, we've been trying to teach her and redirect her from doing this for months and she's just not getting it. So what is wrong with my "firm" no and off.

Can you explain how you execute a firm correction? I know you all mentioned you have to be extra firm with a GSD but it seems like the corrections I'm hearing on this board are relevant to any breed being corrected... can someone elaborate?

[Cassidy's Mom]

The problem with your question is that being firm can mean different things to different people. There simply is no one size fits all answer. Strictly controlling the dog's environment with rules and structure as in NILIF would be the least physical way of being firm, the opposite end of the spectrum might be hard corrections with a prong collar. At her age, I'd be more inclined towards the former than the latter. Putting her on a leash so you can prevent her from practicing behavior you don't like would be something to consider.

And I don't see anything wrong with giving her a little break in the crate from time to time, I don't see it as a temporary resolution, teaching her to hang out and chill is a good thing, especially if it helps save your sanity! I know when my puppies got out of control in the evening sometimes the only thing to do was to put them away for awhile while we both regrouped.

[Emoore]

Depends on the dog and how handler hard she is. I have one dog for whom a firm correction is a loud "no!" and a good stare. I have another one for whom a firm correction involves popping the prong hard enough to make him yelp. If I tried that with the first dog, he'd shut down completely. If I tried a hard stare and a loud "no" with the second one, he wouldn't even notice.


When she jumps on the couch, don't yell "no." Use your body space to push her off the couch. Or grab her by the scruff and drag her off.

[AthenaClimbs]

I've tried the scruff, it only makes her more agitated and bite my hand. Plus I don't want to continue that as I feel it may make her not trust me when I go near her neck (to pop on the leash/collar). Any type of physical contact excites her further. I wish I knew how to convey it's not a game to me.

[Emoore]

A six month old puppy doesn't need a "firm correction" when she's jumping around because she's so excited to be on the leash. She needs her excitement level brought down a couple of notches. What is she hoping to gain from jumping around like an idiot? Faster walk, a reaction from you, fun and excitement. So when she jumps around like an idiot, give her boredom. Stop whatever you're doing, stand like a statue, and stare at the ceiling or sky. Eventually she'll get bored and settle down. When she settles, you start moving again. She will immediately start acting like an idiot. You take this as your cue to stand like a statue and stare at the sky again. The goal here is that she learns she only gets what she wants when she's calm. The first session of this will feel like a crawling eternity. The second one will be shorter. Within 4 or 5 sessions the jumping around like an idiot will be minimized or eliminated. You'll see her start to do it, but catch herself and calm herself down so she can get what she wants.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by AthenaClimbs

I've heard you have to be firm and stern with a german shepherd but can someone elaborate? I can give you some background.
I have an almost 6 month old girl. I have never struck her except batted her on the nose when she's a terror outside and inside (jumping up and biting me everywhere). When I am laying on the couch it is impossible for her to do anything else, she IMMEDIATELY jumps up on top of me and tries to engage with me/play/even bite (and yes I play with her but I can only play ball for so long and want some quiet time too) I'd really prefer not to have to keep her in her crate all the time (unless that's what folks do with a pup this age)! She's well exercised and we play together and I train with her through out the day. We often put her in a crate to maintain our sanity but I know that's not the right fix only a temporary resolution. When she jumps on me on the couch, i "firmly" yell NO and off and if falls on deaf ears. I pull her off on her leash and she jumps back up excitedly. How firm exactly do I need to be, we've been trying to teach her and redirect her from doing this for months and she's just not getting it. So what is wrong with my "firm" no and off.

Can you explain how you execute a firm correction? I know you all mentioned you have to be extra firm with a GSD but it seems like the corrections I'm hearing on this board are relevant to any breed being corrected... can someone elaborate?

Are you *sure* she's getting enough exercise? Just want to ask that, to positively rule that out.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by AthenaClimbs

I've tried the scruff, it only makes her more agitated and bite my hand. Plus I don't want to continue that as I feel it may make her not trust me when I go near her neck (to pop on the leash/collar). Any type of physical contact excites her further. I wish I knew how to convey it's not a game to me.

NILIF is your friend. Nothing in Life is Free

For many pups getting physical just winds them up further, which is why I really love NILIF. Use management (the leash) to prevent the bad behavior, control the resources (everything she values - food, play, attention, affection, access to whatever...), and make her work for everything.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Emoore

A six month old puppy doesn't need a "firm correction" when she's jumping around because she's so excited to be on the leash. She needs her excitement level brought down a couple of notches. What is she hoping to gain from jumping around like an idiot? Faster walk, a reaction from you, fun and excitement. So when she jumps around like an idiot, give her boredom. Stop whatever you're doing, stand like a statue, and stare at the ceiling or sky. Eventually she'll get bored and settle down. When she settles, you start moving again. She will immediately start acting like an idiot. You take this as your cue to stand like a statue and stare at the sky again. The goal here is that she learns she only gets what she wants when she's calm. The first session of this will feel like a crawling eternity. The second one will be shorter. Within 4 or 5 sessions the jumping around like an idiot will be minimized or eliminated. You'll see her start to do it, but catch herself and calm herself down so she can get what she wants.

Totally. Good behavior turns you "on", bad behavior turns you "off". You'd be surprised how quickly dogs figure this out.

[AthenaClimbs]

I'm pretty sure she gets plenty of exercise. She starts with an hour walk in the AM followed by an hour of off leash play in the park with other dogs. Then my mom is home with her through out the day with brief training sessions and play time. My dad comes home, then it's another hour in the park with other other dogs followed by a 45 minute walk. I think it's plenty

[doggiedad]

i don't think you have to yank, crank, scream to be firm.
being firm is making the dog what you want. if my dog
jumped onmme while i was on the sofa i would say "no"
or "get down". i would only say it once and then make my
dog get down and i wouldn't allow him to do it again. you
need to show them along with a verbal command.