Is PetSmart training better than none?

[chelle]

I posted a short time ago about frustration because there's a lag time in when our obedience class ends (2 weeks) and when everyone picks back up (after the holidays.) That is, everyone in town other than PetSmart/Petco. Heck I couldn't even find a basic obedience to just repeat, even though I wasn't thrilled about repeating.

I talked directly to a trainer on the phone and I really liked her. She asked a lot of questions on what we've done, what he knows, weaknesses, strengths, etc and so on. Very thorough. She thought Intermediate Obedience, though Bailey's current trainer said that wouldn't be very challenging, but even that class doesn't start until Dec 21st... ugh!.... so I took the route of private lessons with her at the PetSmart. $100 more than public sessions, but can start anytime and has tons of scheduling flexibility. It'll take us right up to when we can start with the next trainer in January. Seems like a good choice considering my options - what do you think?

I realize I could have my current trainer or any trainer in home for the same price, but I actually like the idea of all the distractions of being in the store. She also said we'd start with Intermediate Obedience stuff, but if he "got it," we could move as far ahead as necessary and/or focus on trouble areas. I talked to her at length about his reactivity to little children who get too near him and she said she wanted to personally watch the reaction to advise how to deal with it. (But of course we cannot risk scaring any children.)

Anyway, I hung up the phone thinking yes, this is a good thing to do... but everything I've heard of PetSmart training is that it's pretty weak stuff. I'm not thrilled we obviously won't be doing any offleash work, but I can't have it all.

Just curious on opinions as to whether this seems a good course for the in-between time gap. (I actually haven't paid for it yet so not completely committed.)

Thanks!

[selzer]

The quality of PetsMart training depends on the trainer. There are some thing they cannot do, like put a prong on the dog. But for the most part, you can find some that train and title dogs that work there, and some who's claim to fame is having owned a dog.

If you cannot discern what is good training and what is bad training then I would stay away from petsmart.

Even with a bad trainer though, you can go and work your dog with other dogs around mostly as a socialization experience, and turn a deaf ear to what you disagree with.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by selzer

.....There are some thing they cannot do, like put a prong on the dog.....

?? I can't have him on a prong at a PetSmart class, even if it's a private one-on-one thing?

[selzer]

Ask her about it. I am pretty sure they cannot suggest it. I am pretty sure they are not supposed to have you use them.

See it looks bad, training is done in a training room in the middle of the store, and open to the view of customers and in the aisles. They want customers to see happy people and happy dogs. Not dog being jerked around with huge spiked collars digging into them.

I am not saying that that is what I think about them, it really is not, but it is all about perception.

Ask before you go if you can use a prong collar.

[doggiedad]

find a private trainer or a group class. i like private
training before a group class.

[EllieMae<3]

I take Ellie Mae to PetCo. I was a little skeptical about it at first, but I spoke to the trainer (as you did) and decided to try it. I am extremely happy about the results. This Tuesday will be her 5th week (It's a 6 week class). The trainer seems very knowledgeable. It's very basic training, but that's all I need. The trainer treats my GSD differently than the other breeds in the class because she understands that GSDs are thinking and problem solving dogs, so she tells me that some of the commands we learn in the class won't apply to Ellie Mae because in some sense, she's too smart for those. The main things we work on is "stay", not jumping on doors when she's about to go outside, and not pulling on the leash. In some way, I feel like I get a one on one with the trainer because she understands how German Shepherds work. Not only that, but she works one on one with each dog throughout the class. She cages off half of the store and lets the class do off leash training. She says that if your dog is to learn one thing from this class it's to stay. That'll save your dog's life in any situation.

Ellie Mae has learned stay very quickly. I haven't heard anything about Petsmart, but I would expect Petsmart and Petco to be around the same thing. We don't use prong collars, but the trainer does wrap the leash around to make it a "choke" collar, when practicing our walking.

I think if you want just the basic training, you should be fine going to Petsmart. Sorry for writing a novel by the way LOL I am pleased with the training thus far. I hope this helped!

[chelle]

Originally Posted by selzer

Ask her about it. I am pretty sure they cannot suggest it. I am pretty sure they are not supposed to have you use them.

See it looks bad, training is done in a training room in the middle of the store, and open to the view of customers and in the aisles. They want customers to see happy people and happy dogs. Not dog being jerked around with huge spiked collars digging into them.

I am not saying that that is what I think about them, it really is not, but it is all about perception.

Ask before you go if you can use a prong collar.

Ok thanks. I get what you're saying. I won't do it if I can't use the prong. She mentioned we will move all *over* the store working on various things with distraction. Considering there will be children, people, dogs, etc and so on, I am simply not willing to try any of that without the prong. THIS is perhaps our biggest weakness - his pulling on a buckle. I have not put enough work into this by far. My failure. I don't wish to be dependent on a prong, so I know I need to ramp this up in training and work much harder, but in the middle of a PetSmart is not the time for that. He's 55-ish pounds now and can pull with incredible strength.

Originally Posted by doggiedad

find a private trainer or a group class. i like private training before a group class.

I stated in my starting post that there are no group classes until after the new year. Any private training would be in my home. I am sure that could be very useful, but I was wanting to concentrate on working under distraction at this point. Maybe I need to research more on private training that's available over the next couple months that is NOT in-home. I'm just not interested in that. Our "problems" are not in-home.

Originally Posted by EllieMae<3

.......It's very basic training, but that's all I need...... We don't use prong collars, but the trainer does wrap the leash around to make it a "choke" collar, when practicing our walking......I think if you want just the basic training.........

I think we're good on the really basic stuff. His sit/stay, down/downstay, heel (on prong), heel/sit (when I stop), place, on heel greetings, leave it, wait (for your food or treat) are all very good. Last class the trainer ramped it up and had us put them in sit/stays and then went on to make ALL kinds of racket. She came thru the line waving her hands and making noise. Then she raised her voice an octave and was walking all crazy. Then, she came through stomping her feet HARD on the floor. Bailey finally caved on the floor-stomping and came out of his stay and barked. I've been walking around the house this week and stomping my feet here and there. He doesn't like it even when I do it? Weird dog.

The thing you mention about wrapping the collar to make it a choke? That makes me very leery. I hate chokes. My very first dog's training was on a choke, and I sucked at it because I simply cannot do it properly. I cannot choke a dog out. I can, for whatever reason, give him a prong correction without a problem (but use them sparingly). I struggled with the prong at first, but then, due to advice here, I put it on myself and tested it. (I also studied in depth how to properly fit it and use it.) My trainer also "tested" those of us with prongs, to be sure we were giving the appropriate correction (she put it on her arm). I'm also very anti choke because of possible trachea damage. This is why I've SUCKED at teaching my dog to walk nicely on a buckle -- he'll pull like no other and I become instantly worried about trachea damage.

Sorry to ramble!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EllieMae<3]

Originally Posted by chelle

The thing you mention about wrapping the collar to make it a choke? That makes me very leery. I hate chokes. My very first dog's training was on a choke, and I sucked at it because I simply cannot do it properly. I cannot choke a dog out. I can, for whatever reason, give him a prong correction without a problem (but use them sparingly). I struggled with the prong at first, but then, due to advice here, I put it on myself and tested it. (I also studied in depth how to properly fit it and use it.) My trainer also "tested" those of us with prongs, to be sure we were giving the appropriate correction (she put it on her arm). I'm also very anti choke because of possible trachea damage. This is why I've SUCKED at teaching my dog to walk nicely on a buckle -- he'll pull like no other and I become instantly worried about trachea damage.

Sorry to ramble!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trachea damage? I've never heard of that! That scares me. I'll have to ask my trainer about that. Could you give me some information on that? Thanks for letting me know. But I hope everything works out with Petsmart!

[chelle]

Originally Posted by EllieMae<3

Trachea damage? I've never heard of that! That scares me. I'll have to ask my trainer about that. Could you give me some information on that? Thanks for letting me know. But I hope everything works out with Petsmart!

Here is one link, there are a great many others to be sure:
Prong Collar Info

Do read the whole way down if you have time. Just more perspective. Myself, I'd like to know more on the German study that's referred to. I'm googling and can't get anywhere thus far. All I know is that when dogs pull on a buckle, so many people jerk them back and the dog makes bad noises... ok, this cannot be good! The dog is short of air, perhaps gasping... this cannot be good! A hard jerk of a choke surely compromises the trachea. How can it not? (That's just my thinking, I am certainly NOT a vet.) However, I can't "not" say that a prong used incorrectly couldn't also do that sort of damage. It is stressed time and time again, for good reason, that the prong MUST be fitted properly, well above the trachea, and when done so, provides optimum results. As an owner, I so prefer this because I know, without a doubt that I am not causing damage to my dog. Momentary discomfort, a pinch? Yes. An attention getter, so to speak, yes. The point of a pinch is not to let them pull the leash to the end and "drag" on it, it's to provide the correction if and when they do run out the leash. Sorry didn't intend to make this about the merits of one collar or another! I rambled yet again. I do that. Especially on Saturday night.

[EllieMae<3]

Originally Posted by chelle

Here is one link, there are a great many others to be sure:
Prong Collar Info

Do read the whole way down if you have time. Just more perspective. Myself, I'd like to know more on the German study that's referred to.

Thanks for sharing this with me. I definitely know now to not get a "choke" collar, because I was thinking about it (Just saddened me a bit to think my dog was going to be "choked." Sounds terrible!). She's definitely better on the leash from when I first got her. She realizes soon after we start walking to not pull because she's choking herself and I have a long leash. The prong collar sounds like a good idea, but then again, I'd be nervous of not putting it on the correct way. I have also heard that it's crucial to put on the correct way. Again, thank you!