Off Lead Walking

[jocoyn]

We have had some interesting discussions on off lead walking with our puppies and I wanted to pull them together then I have another question.


Safe/Appropriate age to start walking puppy out around town?

Oh Deer! Off-leash hiking and the joy of the chase...help!

Beau has been walking offlead in the woods with me since I got him at 11 weeks Oct 1. He is now 17 weeks. No issues there but I know he is fast approaching the teenager age.

We walk about a 35 acre section of woods and field (overgrown to chest high now) in this picture - offlead and do it most days and I have had no issues. Deer do come into the area but do not bed in it and I have never seen one in the midday in the 3 years I have lived here. Only dawn and dusk, then rarely - but there is deer scat and deer trails so I know they come into the area. The road in the SE corner though carries a small amount of traffic and is 55mph. Nice thing about this section of woods is I have never seen a stray canid (wild or domestic) in the area and feel as far as woods go it is quite safe.

Now I am working with him on small cadaver problems and I can set out hides there for him to work and doing onlead scent work in the woods is not ideal. I have kind of pulled in the boundaries of our walking away further from the street and am focusing on this.

So........a lot of background but a simple general question. You start a puppy offlead. Is there a time when you back off and put them on lead and for how long? Do you just base that on the puppy itself? i.e., do thy usally give some warnings?


I have and know how to use the ecollar (and it is different for a dog that must range out-spent hours on phone with Lou Castle in the past) but would rather avoid because it is not a tool I intend to keep on my dog.

[jocoyn]

Aaargh what is it some days with pictures

Here is a picture of the area

[JakodaCD OA]

looks like a WONDERFUL place to walk/train !!

Honestly for me, I base it on the dog..The majority of my GSD's, I could walk in places like the above, off lead and did start as you, the youngest age possible..Deer, coyotes around, but not really visible in the day altho I'v come across a few occassionally..

Dodge, Sami, Masi I have to say had excellent recall, I could/can call them off a deer/wildlife using my BIG MEAN "COME" voice..I have NO idea why they learned to stop on a dime in the face of such a tempting thing to do, but they did/do..

My aussie , ain't working and she's 12...Love her to death, but that girl would chase a bird to China if she could..So with her, I am very careful about where she is offlead, and usually have her on a long line..

So no real answer for you other than I base it on the dog,,and I think you (general you) get to a point where you can 'read' your puppy pretty well, (altho at that stage sometimes anything goes!) and base it on that..

[jocoyn]

Fortunately I have gotten pretty good at reading dogs with a few years of cadaver dog work behind me. Not to metion reading team dogs. You can even differentiate them hitting game scent vs human scent vs predator scent by their body carraige.

Beau. Beau is going to be headstrong that much I can tell. Very eager to please but very persistent about getting his way sometimes. I guess we will take it on a daily basis. Funny thing - cant see the picture but the last time that happened all the repostings of the same picture showed up later. Well the area is subdivisions in rural area, place behind us will eventually be developed into single family homes with a large buffer zone but I think that may be years out because development has slowed to a crawl and there are too many already graded and unbuilt properties that were set up before more stringent tree ordinances to fill out first.

[MaggieRoseLee]

I never went from no leash to leashed on my hikes with my dogs.

What I did, was have issues with all my dogs around 6 months. This seems to be when they get enough independence to 'decide' to run at and jump on to visit a person coming up the trail. Or 'decide' to chase the deer out of my sight.

I'm not a fan of decisions like these !!!!

At about this time I'm also starting up my obedience classes so continue to try to work on this in class and on the trails (being way more careful on my walks to pay attention) to hopefully work out the issues with general obedience training.

But have to admit, that what I ended up ultimately doing was finding a local trainer to teach me how to PROPERLY train the 'come' with the e-collars. Not as a punishment (which is what 99% of us otherwise do cause it's easier. Dog run off, shock the crap out of them as they disappear over the horizon!) but instead using the LOWEST LEVEL necessary to teach them to 'remember' to still listen and obey.

I just have to have my pups get exercise or too many other issues raise their ugly heads. And I've only been able to get that really tired puppy with the off leash activites.

LOU CASTLE - CRITTERING AND AGGRESSION shows one method to teach with the e-collar and really shows this is TRAINING, with series of things to teach.

[jocoyn]

I worked directly with Lou (one of his testimonials about the dog chasing the goat under the horse and continuing the chase after taking a full hit on a cattle fence is mine) is on his page - and, yes, it is amazing.

The challenge with a working offlead SAR dog is not to create a velcro dog-but Lou explains the difference. So the first phase is REALLY shortened. LOL I have neglected my dogtra so if I use it it may need to go in for a new battery. But only one dog on our team actually wears an ecollar for work and they all have to be able to go out of sight of the handler and not loose focus.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

I worked directly with Lou (one of his testimonials about the dog chasing the goat under the horse and continuing the chase after taking a full hit on a cattle fence is mine) is on his page - and, yes, it is amazing.

The challenge with a working offlead SAR dog is not to create a velcro dog-but Lou explains the difference. So the first phase is REALLY shortened. LOL I have neglected my dogtra so if I use it it may need to go in for a new battery. But only one dog on our team actually wears an ecollar for work and they all have to be able to go out of sight of the handler and not loose focus.

Think the best thing about training this properly, is the dogs really learn not to run off. So while my dogs always wear the collars on all our hikes. I rarely if ever have to activate them at this stage. Because I use the collars to TEACH them, they've really learned they aren't allowed to chase anything but squirrels (I don't care about them cause they just head up the nearest tree with a GSD hot on their tails!).

So it's not that I'm constantly shocking them on our hikes. It's just that if they need a bit of reminder cause I really do NOT want them to visit that skunk/bear/deer that I have it available!

[carmspack]

hi jocoyn ! Looks like a beautiful woodlot and there is nothing nicer than this time of year to take a stroll . This is sort of your dogs working environment so here is a suggestion. Take your older crew through the woods as a relaxing walk. Take your youngest guy for a long walk on lead in a more urbanized area - through a park with kids and dogs running around , a once around the town with distractions with your dog ON LEAD , and controlled , with encouraged focus on you . He should be aware of what is going on but should be attached in his focus to you and rewarded for it . Too distracted and acting on it , he hear's "leave it" - and good boy split second after . So you are teaching the dog directability . He is getting his walk. He is get social and environmental stimulation. Learning self control and "jocoyn" control and is enjoying himself .
When you are in the woods , for the time being , use that environment for more dedicated and directed searches -- focus , and responsive - all positive . If something catches his interest then apply the "leave it" which is a set of brakes . Recall not required as part of sequence . You can recall just for the heck of it at any time and always with the expectation of something pleasant . The leave it is stern , the recall is sweet . He will be working closer and within a predetermined range of distance so you develop good work behaviour.

It is all about developing that working bond .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[jocoyn]

My litle goat chaser Cyra was a full quarter of a mile from me on a search problem years ago when I got the radio call. "Wow I just had FIVE deer come crashing past me. Oh No. Cyra is on them". Even without the collar on her I hollered at the top of my lungs to come and she said the dog almost fell putting on the brakes. True, she was not wearing the collar then but it was after the training.

Carmen, I appreciate the insight on this I had not thought about taking him to the distraction area on a long line ...... before that wild hair goes up his patootie. Yes when we started Grim was an EXCELLENT teacher because Grim taught him a good allowable distance from me and even now, Beau checks in like Grim does and moves with me like Grim does. (follow ahead I think it is called - darned surreal is all I can say how they know when you turn)

[chelle]

I had to quit allowing my middle dog offleash when she was around... two'ish. Became too independent and would run off. A real shame. Now she's only offleash in fenced areas, otherwise on a long lead. I tried, I did, but too many times she failed at recall. That naughty girl DID always know where we were, tho. Before I gave up on her being offleash, I'd yell CAR and lead the other(s) back to the car, and VOILA! there came the naughty Shiba and she'd jump right in the car.

My oldest dog is my steady girl. She's been offleash on hikes since 10 weeks and she's eight now, never given me a single ounce of trouble.

Bailey, the youngest, has not yet given me hardly any issues. (He has started testing the yard boundaries, tho.) On the offleash wood walks, he may run ahead a bit, but checks back and never goes too far. This may change and I'm like you, I'm waiting for the independent streak to hit and it's on my mind on our hikes. My oldest is a good influence here. I really do not want to ever get to the point that I have to leash Bailey on our walks. I would consider the ecollar if we begin having issues rather than long leading him.

So in a long-winded sort of way, I'm saying yes, I think it really is dependent on the dog in large part but also depends on the owner, I think, in how important it is for the dogs to be offleash. I mean, can the owner deal with the panic/stress if the dog gets "too" far away. ?

Sure, we've had issues at times. When you give dogs acres of land / trails, etc and especially when they're young, you're functioning on a whole lotta faith there. Operating on your basic, true belief and bond with that dog that it would rather be with you than run off.... And of course, they will "run off" to investigate this, check out that.. normal and healthy of course for them to do that, but if you keep walking on, will they catch up? I've heard it said you should never allow your dogs to be behind you when offleash, but I violate this all the time. I keep walking. I am somewhat sneakily checking back on them (I do NOT want them to see me waiting, checking, etc) but they have always, every single time, caught right back up if they got behind because they were sniffing something. Every single time and every single dog. Even the naughty little Shiba.

That's very important to me, because I do NOT want to try to manage THREE on-leash dogs. That would ruin the whole thing for me -- become far more work than fun. I really believe, too, that it's so very important to do this really early in the dog's life.

Wow, sorry to ramble so long! This is just really important to me. I LOVE my offleash stuff with my dogs.