Chase Me (sigh)

[earthshoes]

We are working on recalls and for the most part four month old Story is not allowed outside without a leash or a long line on, so she never gets far, but I am growing concerned. It seems to me that we should be closer to the goal than this.

Often when she's called, Story dashes away--just a few feet--and lays on her belly and watches the caller. Her tail will even wag a bit if we take a step toward her--two or three steps and she'll run in a big circle and lay down. Holding out treats or a toy produces a raised head, but no consistent compliance. Fussing at her yields excitement and another victory loop. (I didn't expect that to work--it was just that nothing else will work either and for half a second it made me feel better. ) To my credit I have refrained from grabbing the end of the lead or the long line and dragging her forcibly towards me, which is what I want to do sometimes. Story is an assertive bold dog and I'm beginning to get the feeling that this is her way of owning her decision to come (she also lives to push buttons--I've seen this in her interactions with the other dogs). When she does come, it's very rarely in a hurry.

We know better than to play this game--we either stand our ground and call her, apply gentle pressure to the line, or walk the other way quickly so she'll feel obliged to follow us. But none of this is yielding consistent results. She is seventeen weeks and I'm growing concerned that I will never have an iron clad recall with this particular dog. She seems to view "come" as an invitation for a game.

Any thoughts?

[KZoppa]

make yourself WAY more interesting. Obviously the treats you have to offer arent something she considers high value. Instead of stepping toward her, run AWAY from her. When she dashes after you, praise her and treat her. Repeat as necessary. Then you can start adding in "come". I'm serious when i say run away from here. Just walking away wont do the trick. You have to make it fun to come to you. Also remember, she is still a young puppy. Also some dogs never develope a good recall no matter how much training you do with them. Zena was a fabulous dog. Sit, down, you name it. if i was able to teach it to her, she did it. But recall never happened. She was extremely difficult with recall. She was also adopted with no previous training until i got her. She's still a great girl but will not come when told to save her life unless she's already looking for you. Keep up the training but shake it up. Shasta and I are still working on come. She gets distracted very easily in sniffing things and i have to run away or back up really quickly to get her attention before she'll come racing at me.

[chelle]

Originally Posted by eartshhoes

We are working on recalls and for the most part four month old Story is not allowed outside without a leash or a long line on, so she never gets far, but I am growing concerned. It seems to me that we should be closer to the goal than this.

Often when she's called, Story dashes away--just a few feet--and lays on her belly and watches the caller. Her tail will even wag a bit if we take a step toward her--two or three steps and she'll run in a big circle and lay down. Holding out treats or a toy produces a raised head, but no consistent compliance. Fussing at her yields excitement and another victory loop. (I didn't expect that to work--it was just that nothing else will work either and for half a second it made me feel better. ) To my credit I have refrained from grabbing the end of the lead or the long line and dragging her forcibly towards me, which is what I want to do sometimes. Story is an assertive bold dog and I'm beginning to get the feeling that this is her way of owning her decision to come (she also lives to push buttons--I've seen this in her interactions with the other dogs). When she does come, it's very rarely in a hurry.

We know better than to play this game--we either stand our ground and call her, apply gentle pressure to the line, or walk the other way quickly so she'll feel obliged to follow us. But none of this is yielding consistent results. She is seventeen weeks and I'm growing concerned that I will never have an iron clad recall with this particular dog. She seems to view "come" as an invitation for a game.

Agree with ZKoppa in that the treats must be higher value, the running away thing is super effective and just making yourself really, superduper exciting.

Be really careful to (inadvertently) "teach" her to NOT come. Ie, every time you tell her "come" and she doesn't, she is learning she doesn't have to. This is something I'm working with now. I use the "c'mere" command sparingly and only when I'm really very sure he will do so. I just can't stand a failure of a "c'mere" command. It's the only command I use in conjunction with his name. A trainer suggested that and it just stuck, I guess.

You said that "for the most part" she is on leash, but what about when she's not? Have you ever tried offleash trail walks?

It sounds like she's turning things into a game and for 17 weeks, sounds like a fun game to me!

I don't know much about much, but if anything, I'd be really careful about "allowing" her to disobey a "come" command. If she won't obey it cuz she's too busy playing or whatever, I wouldn't even issue it. I bet if you had a hunk of yummy chicken or something, she'd "c'mere."

[Cassidy's Mom]

Here's a thread with some tips on training the recall: No Recall?!!!

And another: Recall and Stay

[earthshoes]

Many thanks to you both (Oooh! Cassidy's Mom--thanks for the links--very useful!). This is not our first rodeo. This is, however, our first Story and she is--of course--her own dog.

We have two levels of treats at our house--lower value treats (dry) for leash work and teaching complicated stuff like "leave it". And higher value treats that make the pockets of all my coats and pants smell like beef jerky. Story will generally do anything for those. But with this particular dog I suspect excitement trumps food. And that excitement is apparently in perceived freedom and control (over our attention). And the undying hope of engaging us in chasing her.

And you should see how much fun I am (I am a one woman cheer leading squad--Among other things, I used to teach preschool). I am seriously glad we don't have any immediate neighbors.

I am very concerned about accidentally teaching her she doesn't have to come--which is why I posted this question and why she drags a line or a lead when we're outside. In our family of dogs we have two rescues who came to us as adults (both are elderly now) who were consummate door dashers during their first year or so with us and seemed to think "come" meant "You just keep on running. We'll catch up." It took resorting to an e-collar to help one and the other finally responded to training. But it was a long rocky road and not one I'd like to walk again.

I will try changing up my approach by backing away and running. I had been reluctant to encourage her to chase us as this kind of activity so often ends in Story snatching at pants legs, etc. But maybe if I stop before she gets too amped up we can build a better recall.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Pups love to play and chasing them is a great game that ALL OUR PUPS LOVE TO PLAY. Games are good too. So blending the 'come means come we are training' with the ' I love to play with you too' is difficult.

I agree that the backing up and running away is a GREAT way to work on this. Because it makes you part of the fun game PLUS it gets you what you want (the come). So they are learning.

Big thing for teaching the 'come' is to make sure when they do that you play release and continue the game. Cause they are VERY clever at learning if 'come means I get leashed we go indoors' then 'come SUCKS'.

This is a great time to add the engagement games and tugging to the mix. Cause it's very rousing and motivating to get them to TEAR over to us for the play. So it's not just a boring 'come' but a blasting over to us 'come'.

click this ---> Engagement - Key to Training

[Freestep]

I agree with the others--higher value treats, make yourself more interesting, make sure she's not learning NOT to come, etc. I also wanted to add that at 17 weeks, she may simply need more maturity before you can expect a solid recall. My pup went through the "chase me" stage (and she's still sort of trying the "keepaway" thing) and it was really frustrating, but if she tried to play that game, I simply wouldn't play. I'd turn around and leave, go back in the house, and leave her outside by herself for a few minutes. When she started fussing at the door like "Hey, where'd you go, I'm lonely out here!", I'd go back outside and we'd try again. Do this as many times as you have to, even if it means you don't practice a recall for a week. Give her some time to mature before you get too frustrated with her.