I'm at a loss

DeeJay · 09-07-2011, 03:58 PM

My two boys [Ezio and Tonto] just recently turned 5 months and have been doing good so far. We're working with them on their jumping and teaching them not to bite and it's going well enough, I'd say.

Just a few days ago my brother and his family [4 year old niece and year old nephew] moved back into town and they've been over a lot. My boys love my niece and put up with anything she can throw at them which is great but my problem is that if we start to play with her [tickle her, pick her up and run, or even if she starts running on her own] they get protective and try to attack us.

It's not too bad yet as they've only had a few days to start this behavior but I absolutely cannot allow it to go on. They're going to be trained in protection work when they're old enough but so I don't want them to think it's bad to protect her, I just want them to know that they don't need to protect her from us.

Just yesterday I was playing with her [I had taken the pups out so that they could play and go potty] and before I got five steps I had both of them jumping at either side and biting at my arms. One of them managed to nick my arm just enough to give me a small scab but I avoided the other. If my niece starts running off on her own [as she tends to do] they run after her and generally Tonto [the bigger of the two] will jump at her to knock her down then start sniffing and licking her face. We're working with my niece to get her to not run around them but we have to work with the puppies, too.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Good_Karma · 09-07-2011, 07:48 PM

I don't have much experience with kids and dogs (okay none actually) but I have been under the assumption that 5 months old is too soon to be seeing signs of protectiveness. You can certainly see possessiveness, though. Maybe there is a bit of that going on, plus a lot of play behaviors.

For now I would stop doing the things that make your dogs react that way. At least until you figure out a way to correct this behavior. Hopefully some people will have suggestions for you.

**MaggieRoseLee** · 09-08-2011, 12:54 AM

Protective and try to attack?

Or just try to join into the fun fray of play? Play looks alot like fighting with puppies. And a pack of puppies looks like chaos....

KZoppa · 09-08-2011, 01:04 AM

You need to seperate the pups when your neice is over and work on training them individually on proper behaviors. They're tag teaming and feeding off each other. Its difficult enough training two puppies at once but then you added in a new playmate. Teach them individually how to PROPERLY interact with your niece and you at the same time, otherwise you will have some serious issues when they're a lot bigger. It will take time because they're young and boys (we all know how boys are lol) but its something that needs to be done. Once they can reliably be nice on their own, then you can try introducing them together.

Keep in mind, together, you also need to enforce corrections. Your niece is young and will act the way she will act. Sadly, you need to train the dogs and your niece will learn as she goes with guidence and help.

Konotashi · 09-08-2011, 01:23 AM

Sounds like they're trying to join in the play-fest. Not protection at all - they're too young to even understand the concept of being protective.
I would say keep it calm when the pups are around - save the rough play for when they're outside or put away.

**MaggieRoseLee** · 09-08-2011, 10:03 AM

[QUOTE=Konotashi;2246608]Sounds like they're trying to join in the play-fest. Not protection at all - they're too young to even understand the concept of being protective.
I would say keep it calm when the pups are around - save the rough play for when they're outside or put away.[/QUOTE]

Well put.

It's 'easy' to just let the chaos happen then REACT with corrections and yelling and adding to the 'crazy'. Then be frustrated when things don't seem to change.

Much better to be SMART. Working things out ahead of time to MANAGE the kids PLUS the dogs. Cause the fact is both need to 'learn' how to behave properly around each other. Much easier to keep the crazy to a minimum until your pups mature and get all the learning they need away from kids.

Emoore · 09-08-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konotashi

Sounds like they're trying to join in the play-fest. Not protection at all - they're too young to even understand the concept of being protective.
I would say keep it calm when the pups are around - save the rough play for when they're outside or put away.

Strongly agree with this. Your pups are getting excited and worked up and jumping into play/fight. Just manage the interactions, especially if you're planning to do PPD training with them. Also, please know that you have my deepest sympathies on raising two GSD pups at the same time.

sit,stay · 09-08-2011, 12:42 PM

I agree that they probably aren't being protective, but rather are just reacting to stimulating play that looks and sounds like a lot of fun. They want to share the joy!

I would also add that it might be too difficult to teach them boundaries and self control in such a charged situation when they are both present and needing to learn. I would work with them separately, and once they behave appropriately (however you define "appropriately" for the situation) on their own, then I would work on getting that same response when they are together.
Sheilah

09-07-2011, 03:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
DeeJay New Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 3	I'm at a loss My two boys [Ezio and Tonto] just recently turned 5 months and have been doing good so far. We're working with them on their jumping and teaching them not to bite and it's going well enough, I'd say. Just a few days ago my brother and his family [4 year old niece and year old nephew] moved back into town and they've been over a lot. My boys love my niece and put up with anything she can throw at them which is great but my problem is that if we start to play with her [tickle her, pick her up and run, or even if she starts running on her own] they get protective and try to attack us. It's not too bad yet as they've only had a few days to start this behavior but I absolutely cannot allow it to go on. They're going to be trained in protection work when they're old enough but so I don't want them to think it's bad to protect her, I just want them to know that they don't need to protect her from us. Just yesterday I was playing with her [I had taken the pups out so that they could play and go potty] and before I got five steps I had both of them jumping at either side and biting at my arms. One of them managed to nick my arm just enough to give me a small scab but I avoided the other. If my niece starts running off on her own [as she tends to do] they run after her and generally Tonto [the bigger of the two] will jump at her to knock her down then start sniffing and licking her face. We're working with my niece to get her to not run around them but we have to work with the puppies, too. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

09-07-2011, 07:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Good_Karma Crowned Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Upstate, NY Posts: 4,103	I don't have much experience with kids and dogs (okay none actually) but I have been under the assumption that 5 months old is too soon to be seeing signs of protectiveness. You can certainly see possessiveness, though. Maybe there is a bit of that going on, plus a lot of play behaviors. For now I would stop doing the things that make your dogs react that way. At least until you figure out a way to correct this behavior. Hopefully some people will have suggestions for you. __________________ Leah: Newbie dog owner Niko: American Showline GSD 2 1/2 years old Rosa: American Muppet Dog (GSD/Border Collie mix) 3 years old

09-08-2011, 12:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,215	Protective and try to attack? Or just try to join into the fun fray of play? Play looks alot like fighting with puppies. And a pack of puppies looks like chaos.... __________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

09-08-2011, 01:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
KZoppa Crowned Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Maryland kinda missing CO Posts: 13,832	You need to seperate the pups when your neice is over and work on training them individually on proper behaviors. They're tag teaming and feeding off each other. Its difficult enough training two puppies at once but then you added in a new playmate. Teach them individually how to PROPERLY interact with your niece and you at the same time, otherwise you will have some serious issues when they're a lot bigger. It will take time because they're young and boys (we all know how boys are lol) but its something that needs to be done. Once they can reliably be nice on their own, then you can try introducing them together. Keep in mind, together, you also need to enforce corrections. Your niece is young and will act the way she will act. Sadly, you need to train the dogs and your niece will learn as she goes with guidence and help. __________________ The more people I meet and talk to,the more I love my dogs and their intelligence. www.krystalscollarcreations.weebly.com Riley GSD/BC 1/10/05 Zena GSD 6/1/03 Shasta GSD 5/5/10

09-08-2011, 01:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
Konotashi Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,380	Sounds like they're trying to join in the play-fest. Not protection at all - they're too young to even understand the concept of being protective. I would say keep it calm when the pups are around - save the rough play for when they're outside or put away. __________________ Ozzy - Chocolate Pom "In a perfect world, every dog would have a home and every home would have a dog." My Photography

09-08-2011, 10:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,215	[QUOTE=Konotashi;2246608]Sounds like they're trying to join in the play-fest. Not protection at all - they're too young to even understand the concept of being protective. I would say keep it calm when the pups are around - save the rough play for when they're outside or put away.[/QUOTE] Well put. It's 'easy' to just let the chaos happen then REACT with corrections and yelling and adding to the 'crazy'. Then be frustrated when things don't seem to change. Much better to be SMART. Working things out ahead of time to MANAGE the kids PLUS the dogs. Cause the fact is both need to 'learn' how to behave properly around each other. Much easier to keep the crazy to a minimum until your pups mature and get all the learning they need away from kids. __________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

09-08-2011, 12:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
sit,stay Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,056	I agree that they probably aren't being protective, but rather are just reacting to stimulating play that looks and sounds like a lot of fun. They want to share the joy! I would also add that it might be too difficult to teach them boundaries and self control in such a charged situation when they are both present and needing to learn. I would work with them separately, and once they behave appropriately (however you define "appropriately" for the situation) on their own, then I would work on getting that same response when they are together. Sheilah

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