Different types of tracking?

[Bequavious]

Ok so I'm totally new to tracking. It just sounded like something that would be fun to try and potentially useful during deer season. The more I've looked into it though, it seems like there are a lot of different types of "tracking." People train their dogs to find live people through the air or on the ground, dead people on land or in the water, wounded game by following blood, and drugs/guns in the air.

What I'm wondering is whether the same dog could be taught multiple forms of tracking? I have no interest in finding dead people or drugs, but I think the people tracking of AKC & Schutzhund are cool as well as being able to find a wounded deer. Would I have to train all of these things completely separately from the beginning? Or would she figure out what I want and be able to follow any kind of track human or deer? Sorry if these are dumb questions; I'm just trying to figure this out and the library didn't have any Tracking for Dummies books

[jocoyn]

finding human remains is not tracking but a form of air scenting as is drugs and guns.

You have basically three types of tracking

schutzhund which is footstep to footstep and

AKC which is similar but a little looser and probably allows some incorporation of the human scent and

Neither schutzhund or AKC tracking are about finding anything but footsteps and articles left on the track. Both are good foundational work for trailing dogs, though as they teach the dog to work ground odor.

Trailing is following the scent trail depositied by the person which may or may not necessarily be where the footsteps fell but would be close-and variable depending on weather conditions and terrain.

trailing wounded deer, aka, "blood trailing" would be a different discipline - trailing for blood - a dog trained to find a human would be specifically trained NOT to follow any animal - EVER.

Any trailing discipline is a lot of work. AKC and schutzhund are sports but there a folks on the board from Charlteston doing dogpsort. There is also a SAR team there as well SCSD scsearchdogs

[Bequavious]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

trailing wounded deer, aka, "blood trailing" would be a different discipline - trailing for blood - a dog trained to find a human would be specifically trained NOT to follow any animal - EVER.

I can definitely see why this would be super important for SAR dogs and maybe even AKC/SchH dogs that you wanted to title really high, but I don't understand why it would be so different if you're just trailing for fun? Don't you show the dog the scent you want him to follow in AKC and SchH? Couldn't you take him to a deer trail and show him that scent as well? Sorry if I'm being terribly dense...

Oh and I looked in to the local SAR group, but I'm afraid it's going to be a little too involved for me

[debbiebrown]

unless there was a good reason for scenting deer or wild animals i wouldn't do it. these dogs have a high prey drive and honestly don't need much help when it comes to scenting animals. it would take just as much work and training to scent animals, because there is a huge degree of obedience and recall to that. say they were scenting deer and they found them, the deer take off and the dog chases them without owner control. not a good situation. so unless you want to train for reliable recall and extreme obedience i wouldn't encourage that. just my thinking .................

[Bequavious]

Originally Posted by debbiebrown

unless there was a good reason for scenting deer or wild animals i wouldn't do it. these dogs have a high prey drive and honestly don't need much help when it comes to scenting animals. it would take just as much work and training to scent animals, because there is a huge degree of obedience and recall to that. say they were scenting deer and they found them, the deer take off and the dog chases them without owner control. not a good situation. so unless you want to train for reliable recall and extreme obedience i wouldn't encourage that. just my thinking .................

The reason would be to help find a deer after it's been shot. With bow hunting the deer doesn't just drop like it does with a well placed rifle shot. Instead it runs a little ways before laying down to die, so you have to track it. I figured a dog trained to track would make this a faster, easier process. There wouldn't be anything for him to chase since he's looking for a dead animal, and everything I've read suggests you track on leash, so even if he did find a live animal, you wouldn't loose him.

My main question is whether you'd have to train this type of tracking totally separate from AKC/SchH tracking or whether there would be some natural overlap?

[gsdsar]

There is some natural overlap. But I would not be training the two things at the same time. One or the other. In both cases the dogs must learn to ignore cross tracks, and I think it would be confusing if they happened upon the scent if deer while running a human track.


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[Catu]

Originally Posted by debbiebrown

unless there was a good reason for scenting deer or wild animals i wouldn't do it. these dogs have a high prey drive and honestly don't need much help when it comes to scenting animals. it would take just as much work and training to scent animals, because there is a huge degree of obedience and recall to that. say they were scenting deer and they found them, the deer take off and the dog chases them without owner control. not a good situation. so unless you want to train for reliable recall and extreme obedience i wouldn't encourage that. just my thinking .................

While you are right on the risks, the deer hound can track on lead. No need to let the dog search loose as in SAR.

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[debbiebrown]

yes, if on leash and trained properly i can understand the reason for having a dog track deer etc. just wanted to make sure the OP knew there was just as much training involved with that as the other types of tracking. and agree one thing needs to be taught at a time making sure the dog absorbs what he is supposed to do before doing another.

[Bequavious]

Originally Posted by gsdsar

There is some natural overlap. But I would not be training the two things at the same time. One or the other. In both cases the dogs must learn to ignore cross tracks, and I think it would be confusing if they happened upon the scent if deer while running a human track.

Originally Posted by debbiebrown

yes, if on leash and trained properly i can understand the reason for having a dog track deer etc. just wanted to make sure the OP knew there was just as much training involved with that as the other types of tracking. and agree one thing needs to be taught at a time making sure the dog absorbs what he is supposed to do before doing another.

Ok awesome! Do you think it matters which is taught first? It sounds like you would want to make sure the dog was pretty solid on the first type before beginning the next, but once she had learned both separately, do you think she could preform both types? Could she go to an AKC event one weekend and then hunting the next, after she had been fully trained in both? I know that's probably ambitious, but I'm just curious as to whether it would be possible.

[Lilie]

Doing SAR work and utilizing your dog for blood trailing are two very different scopes of work. Although your dog may have the ability to perform well in tracking, it is frowned upon to use your dog for both.

When training for blood trailing your dog is following a blood trail. The wounded game may not even bleed much at all. Wounded game will provide a specific scent through glands that the dog will follow as well as any blood provided from the wound. So your dog will air scent and ground scent. Your dog is required to follow THAT specific animal and not 'live' tracks made by other game. So if a hunter strikes a deer that is in a group, and they all run, your dog must follow the wounded deer. If your dog chases a deer that is not wounded, your dog fails at the ability to blood track. Very difficult to correct. And it's illegal in most states.

When your dog makes a find on a blood trail, the dog is allowed (and encouraged) to self reward. Meaning, it will begin to feed at the wound site. That is it's reward. If the game is still alive, the dog is trained to bark (bay) and NOT feed (avoiding injury to the dog and additional pain to the game.) The dog is either on a long lead, or wearing a GPS, so the handler doesn't hinder the dog's job.

You can imagine what would happen if a dog was doing SAR work and self rewarded.

There are specific certifications (levels) a dog can earn when blood trailing. But they are not required to use the dog for trailing.

My Blue Lacy is being trained for blood trailing. At a year old, last deer season he made two finds (one very difficult) as well as clarified two misses. He is a tracking Rockstar. For fun, we play hide and seek he never loses. Friday night, a friend of our brought their young daughter over. I gave her a rag and she rubbed it all over her hair, neck and face. She then walked out about 200 yards and hid behind our barn. I pulled my Lacy out, took the rag and let him smell it. He's a high drive dog, therefore he was tugging it and attempting to play with it. Then I told him to "Find it" the command I ONLY use when we are playing hide and seek. Totally different than the command I use when I want him to 'find' a blood trail. Instantly, (and to my surprise) he made a few large circles, caught her trail and raced out to the barn and made his 'find'. She rewarded him with cheese.

Does that make him a candidate for SAR? No. Are there Lacy's in SAR? Yes. But they aren't used for blood trailing. Would my Lacy attempt to self reward when he found the young child? No. But I knew when he 'found' her he would be totally turned on and might have injured her by jumping and nipping. Therefore, I gave her a stick of string cheese (his crack).

My (long winded) point is, I truly don't think a dog that is used seriously in one can be used seriously in another. For fun, at home entertainment, and dog can play. But if you intend on blood tracking and want to keep your dog safe, or if you intend on doing SAR work (lots of SAR groups won't allow you to participate if you've done blood trailing) and want to keep the lure safe, then I wouldn't even attempt to do either on a serious level.