Kris Kotsopoulos

[onyx'girl]

100 Point K9 Tracking System - Imagine...If You Could Achieve Excellent Tracking With Your Dog
Anyone have experience with this method?

[szariksdad]

Have not heard of it before. However after reading his website I did see a couple of things he wrote in the book as excerpts on the webpage that I disagreed with.

[Liesje]

I have not read the book but my TD got it and explained it to us (he wrote up a synopsis and then we talked about it for over an hour). I'm not totally sold on the "scent discrimination" part, not because I don't see the value but because I see SchH tracking as more of channeling drive into an obedience style of tracking and not actual scent discrimination as used by police, SAR, etc. But the style of training using articles is basically what I've already been doing for about 8 months now. I've trained articles really well and then use them to train the tracking, not food on the track or rewards at the end. To train a deep nose, I use a tiny article or half-buried article. If I want to reward, I drop an article, if I want to build more drive, I drop an article and when running the track, have the dog stay down there for a while and his drive and anticipation goes up. If I need to slow the dog down, again use the tiny articles and make them harder to fine. I have a puppy who is brand new to tracking since it basically snowed here from Oct-two weeks ago and will be using this article method from the beginning. So right now I'm training articles off the track and then will move to an article in the scent pad and go from there. I'm sick of putting $10 food roll on a track when the dog will track just as well or better using another method. I think it just depends on how the handler views tracking and what are the goals. To me, SchH tracking is finding articles using a deep nose and more precise style of tracking. That's just how I see it and how I train it. I don't even like tracking but so far it's my dog's best event (and best trial score).

[Jason L]

Originally Posted by Liesje

I don't even like tracking

This ...

Ike, how do you feel about becoming a FR or Mondio dog?

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by Liesje

. I have a puppy who is brand new to tracking since it basically snowed here from Oct-two weeks ago and will be using this article method from the beginning. So right now I'm training articles off the track and then will move to an article in the scent pad and go from there.

How do you train articles?

[Liesje]

I train them off the track on their own (so as their own 2-3 minute session, not on grass/near tracking but on pavement or indoors, and not as part of other obedience session). I just lay the article down, maybe point to it, and when the dog downs with it between the paws I mark and reward. I take it away, and continue giving a treat or two so that the dog learns right away to stay down until I give another command. I usually teach platz/down to my dogs right away, so they already know it and often it is their "default" behavior when trying to figure out what I want, so normally within just a few reps in the first session they will platz on the article. I don't tell them to platz, just let them try on their own. I think in the book he does a more complete clicker training (like, click/treat when puppy looks at article, then c/t when puppy sniffs article, and shaping from nothing to the platz), but I do a shorter version since I've never had trouble getting the puppy to offer a platz on the article and do it reliably within a session or two.

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by Liesje

I train them off the track on their own (so as their own 2-3 minute session, not on grass/near tracking but on pavement or indoors, and not as part of other obedience session). I just lay the article down, maybe point to it, and when the dog downs with it between the paws I mark and reward. I take it away, and continue giving a treat or two so that the dog learns right away to stay down until I give another command. I usually teach platz/down to my dogs right away, so they already know it and often it is their "default" behavior when trying to figure out what I want, so normally within just a few reps in the first session they will platz on the article. I don't tell them to platz, just let them try on their own. I think in the book he does a more complete clicker training (like, click/treat when puppy looks at article, then c/t when puppy sniffs article, and shaping from nothing to the platz), but I do a shorter version since I've never had trouble getting the puppy to offer a platz on the article and do it reliably within a session or two.

Cool. Yeah, I've done similarly, although usually I do tracking training and article training then bring them together and later on in tracking will use the articles as rewards, rather than early on. But I've trained with some really successful trackers who do articles from day one. (And I've seen some trainers who will use low-level e-stim to train tracking with articles--that can work well, too, but I don't enjoy training from that "direction.")

[Liesje]

I also started the older dog with what seems to be the more common method: scent pads graduating to a tail, then serpentines, etc. Always food on the track, using less and less but usually having it on the track somewhere depending on where the challenges are. Either a food pile or a toy at the end. Then train articles off the track as described, then do straight "article tracks" (while still working "normal" tracks), then bring them together once the dog is reliable on article tracks.

I like the idea of focusing more on the articles - especially using them strategically when laying the track - for stopping to reward, stopping to pause and build more anticipation, rewarding after a challenge, making the article itself more challenging, controlling pace, etc. so for me this method of building that in from the beginning rather than starting with food in every footstep makes more sense (and sounds easier on the back AND the wallet!). I don't know if these ideas are in the book but that's just how I've been doing it lately, and it seems to fit with his method.

I believe in the book he graduates to using the e-collar to proof everything. We didn't really talk about that as most people in my club either don't need that or aren't at that point. I don't use an e-collar to track, not that I'm against it per se but it doesn't really "fit" with how I train/track at least not yet with the dogs I have.