Torn between choices

[Asche-zu-Staub]

I really want to do SAR tracking with stauba, so at the end of the tracks, I have a person with a toy/treat to really excite her (like i've seen them do on the training videos for the search foundation). I had told my breeder (she is also a professional trainer)about the foot tracking method i was using, and she said it was good, however, if i wanted to do schH, i shouldnt place a person on the end of the track. She didnt really elaborate on why you shouldn't do that, but gave me great advice on how to get her to "hold the articles" when she finds them . I'm not sure what to do here, because I have not decided if I'm going all the way into SchH. What is at the end of a track in SchH tracking? Does it just end? Is there anything i can do to have both worlds here?

[JKlatsky]

Generally, if you are going to train a dog to do SchH style tracking you need to train that first because it requires more technique and precision. Truthfully SchH tracking is not particularly useful in terms of real world SAR.

Generally in SAR tracking, the goal is not HOW the dog tracks, but rather the end goal of finding the person/article/etc. This means that for SAR, the dog can pick up it's head, use air scent, and doesn't have to be nearly as precise on the track as the SchH tracking dog. SAR dogs do not footstep track.

Generally you have to teach SchH first because it's harder in the sense that it's more controlled and generally more intense and focused. Once you allow a dog to scent to find things (which is probably more natural to the dog) you have a very hard time going back and getting the precision you need to do well on the SchH track. You do not want the dog antipating a reward from a person at the end of the track. Because first...at trial there will be no person. If they start looking for a person to reward them they might veer off track and go to a spectator or judge...Not what you want. The goal of the SchH track IS the track.

In a SchH track for the end in trial it ends with an article. I've seen people end it with a food jackpot in the last step, or with a ball buried at the end of the track. I've also seen people release their dog off the track and then reward them with play with a ball from themselves.

[JKlatsky]

Take a look at the different pictures here....

This is a SchH track. Notice how evenly paced the dog is moving, calm and head always down...

You Tube

You Tube

This GSD pup is training in SAR...notice that when she finds the person, she races BACK to her handler to let her know that she's found something...Does it look the same at all? (By the way this person's YouTube channel is great and shows lots of videos of the different steps in training SAR)

You Tube

You Tube

YouTube - skywidedesign's Channel

[Asche-zu-Staub]

Originally Posted by JKlatsky

Take a look at the different pictures here....

This is a SchH track. Notice how evenly paced the dog is moving, calm and head always down...

YouTube - Schutzhund Tracking SchH2 100pt Track

This GSD pup is training in SAR...notice that when she finds the person, she races BACK to her handler to let her know that she's found something...Does it look the same at all? (By the way this person's YouTube channel is great and shows lots of videos of the different steps in training SAR)
YouTube - German Shepherd puppy trains for search and rescue
YouTube - skywidedesign's Channel

These are excellent thank you. I actually see similarities in both of these videos. Her pace is not as slow as the SchH tracking, but she certainly does not sprint, and she occasionally lifts her nose, then puts it back down. I would lay more treats on the track, however, she ignores them (hamburger, hot dog, chicken...doesnt matter to her, she is the pickiest eater i have ever seen). Would using the extra treats normally teach to keep their head down to the track more often? I saw that someone used cereal...maybe i could try that since she ignores the stuff normal dogs love lol. She doesn't usually break away from the track...when she does its been a couple very well preformed times and i believe she may be getting bored (she is also a pup, almost 11 months old).

[JKlatsky]

Yeah, lifting the nose and putting it back down would be penalized in SchH. It would be considered to be a break in concentration or a loss of focus. SchH tracking is often considered by some to be more of an obedience exercise than actual tracking...breaking from the track would be equivalent to getting up from the long down...not to be permitted. With an 11 month old you would work it the same way you would obedience. Setting the track up for success and making sure your dog only learns what you want.

Most SchH trackers will put food in every footstep for a long time to not only get the dog's nose deep, but to also extablish that slight back and froth rhythm that shows that the dogs is going footstep to footstep.

All I'm trying to say is that if you do decide to pursue SchH then the goal is very specific and you need to train for that discipline to start with.

[Asche-zu-Staub]

i think the hardest part will be finding food she'll eat lol

[JKlatsky]

She may be racing to the end of the track and skipping the food if she's anticipating the toy at the end...I know if I don't bury their ball at the end deep enough and they catch the scent of it they'll pick up there head and pick up speed...

For some reason pork roast always seems to get mine going, although too much can upset their tummy. I just boil it until it's good and cooked and then chop it up...

Might be worth a shot. Although my female was not really into eating until after her first or second heat...tracking was slow going then and most of her obedience was trained with toys...