I Hate To Say It, But.... - Page 6

**Chris Wild** · 02-20-2013, 04:08 PM

Lee's examples aren't location specific. Pretty much anywhere in the country you could get 2 show line pups, or 3-4 working line pups, from titled and fully health certified parents, for the $5000 you quoted.

Like others have said, I would never, ever buy a puppy without seeing the pedigree first. The pedigree is the genetic blueprint of the dog and provides clues as to how the dog will turn out when mature, both physically and mentally, and if there are any warning signs of problems in either of those areas it will likely show them too. It's nice that the breeder is providing a puppy packet that will include the pedigree, but most of the information in that puppy pack, particularly the pedigree of the litter, ought to be made available to interested purchasers before they put a deposit on a pup.

For someone interested in breeding, this is especially important. If you have hopes of this pup being a breeding dog, make sure everything is stacked in favor of that before buying a pup. Even if you consider this pup to be a learning dog and don't plan to breed it in the future, it will still be with you for the next 12-14 years. A well bred dog is more likely to be a sound, healthy companion for that timeframe and also better able to provide you with a better learning experience. If you can't afford a well bred pup from a good breeder, or haven't yet been able to find one that fits your distance constraints, than wait.

It never pays to be in a hurry, cut corners and do things on impulse. Not when buying a dog, not when raising and training it, and certainly not when breeding. An important lesson to learn, and again especially important given your goals of becoming a breeder.

martemchik · 02-20-2013, 04:17 PM

I think if you're looking for a pet...that you'll show and trial...the pedigree matters less. But since you're thinking about breeding in the future, it pays to do the due diligence and research before you get the pup. Remember, you'll have this dog for 12 years and although you'll probably be able to get another one when you know more, you might be limited as to how many you get after that.

Then you have to wait for the dog to pass before you get the dog you truly want with the genetics to breed. You're getting one person's opinion on the pedigree. A person that is trying to SELL you the dog. Yes, the trainer is there as well, but the trainer is probably a very good friend of the breeder and really isn't going to talk about the deficiencies in the pedigree or the dog.

I'm getting a puppy in 8 weeks...I trust the breeder with their pedigree and mating decision but I've also asked people on this board for their input (although some haven't answered) and I've done my own looking around. If I don't get a female out of this litter, I'll start searching again and when I find that right dog I'll get it.

bethany.cole2013 · 02-20-2013, 04:20 PM

So after doing much much thinking and as cute as he may be, everyone is right. I would be doing my personal goals no favors by getting him. I've decided that I will let the breeder know this and will get my deposit back. I've also contacted Nick and will be saving up to get a puppy from him in the coming fall when he is expecting a new litter.

DunRingill · 02-20-2013, 06:09 PM

about shipping: my last 3 dogs were shipped to me as babies, from California to NJ. Didn't bother them in the least!

bethany.cole2013 · 02-20-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DunRingill

about shipping: my last 3 dogs were shipped to me as babies, from California to NJ. Didn't bother them in the least!

That's just my preference, because they're put under stress and are stressed enough switching to different homes and I just choose to minimize the amount of stress my dogs are put under if I can.

**Chris Wild** · 02-20-2013, 09:09 PM

I've shipped many pups, and received shipped pups too, and never had a problem. They pop out at the airport spunky and ready to go. At least pups with good nerves do. Even the ones with ok but less than bombproof nerves are fine.

How a dog deals with stress, pups included, shows it's nerves. If they are solid, shipping is no worry. If they are not, and the pup freaks out then... well you know right away from day 1 that it isn't a breeding candidate. Just sayin'.

Smithie86 · 02-20-2013, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wild

I've shipped many pups, and received shipped pups too, and never had a problem. They pop out at the airport spunky and ready to go. At least pups with good nerves do. Even the ones with ok but less than bombproof nerves are fine.

How a dog deals with stress, pups included, shows it's nerves. If they are solid, shipping is no worry. If they are not, and the pup freaks out then... well you know right away from day 1 that it isn't a breeding candidate. Just sayin'.

Well said.

cliffson1 · 02-20-2013, 10:41 PM

I agree Chris and Sue, if I thought a puppy that came from Europe or the Americas would be negatively affected by shipping stress, that would not be a puppy I would consider to own.

carmspack · 02-21-2013, 02:02 AM

"I think if you're looking for a pet...that you'll show and trial...the pedigree matters less."

I would say the pedigree always matters -- you may not understand it or appreciate it as a pet buyer , but it always matters .

don't worry about shipping -- there is no stress that a good dog can't handle. Just last month sent a 12 week old to Orlando , no problems.
Ship and receive all the time .

bethany.cole2013 · 02-21-2013, 09:08 PM

Everyone has offered good points about the shipping and nerves correlation. I am wondering, though, how will you know if the puppy can handle the stresses of shipping? Will the breeder be able to tell you or how would you go about knowing this?

02-20-2013, 04:08 PM	#51 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 13,045	Lee's examples aren't location specific. Pretty much anywhere in the country you could get 2 show line pups, or 3-4 working line pups, from titled and fully health certified parents, for the $5000 you quoted. Like others have said, I would never, ever buy a puppy without seeing the pedigree first. The pedigree is the genetic blueprint of the dog and provides clues as to how the dog will turn out when mature, both physically and mentally, and if there are any warning signs of problems in either of those areas it will likely show them too. It's nice that the breeder is providing a puppy packet that will include the pedigree, but most of the information in that puppy pack, particularly the pedigree of the litter, ought to be made available to interested purchasers before they put a deposit on a pup. For someone interested in breeding, this is especially important. If you have hopes of this pup being a breeding dog, make sure everything is stacked in favor of that before buying a pup. Even if you consider this pup to be a learning dog and don't plan to breed it in the future, it will still be with you for the next 12-14 years. A well bred dog is more likely to be a sound, healthy companion for that timeframe and also better able to provide you with a better learning experience. If you can't afford a well bred pup from a good breeder, or haven't yet been able to find one that fits your distance constraints, than wait. It never pays to be in a hurry, cut corners and do things on impulse. Not when buying a dog, not when raising and training it, and certainly not when breeding. An important lesson to learn, and again especially important given your goals of becoming a breeder. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels*

02-20-2013, 04:17 PM	#52 (permalink)
martemchik Knighted Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,552	I think if you're looking for a pet...that you'll show and trial...the pedigree matters less. But since you're thinking about breeding in the future, it pays to do the due diligence and research before you get the pup. Remember, you'll have this dog for 12 years and although you'll probably be able to get another one when you know more, you might be limited as to how many you get after that. Then you have to wait for the dog to pass before you get the dog you truly want with the genetics to breed. You're getting one person's opinion on the pedigree. A person that is trying to SELL you the dog. Yes, the trainer is there as well, but the trainer is probably a very good friend of the breeder and really isn't going to talk about the deficiencies in the pedigree or the dog. I'm getting a puppy in 8 weeks...I trust the breeder with their pedigree and mating decision but I've also asked people on this board for their input (although some haven't answered) and I've done my own looking around. If I don't get a female out of this litter, I'll start searching again and when I find that right dog I'll get it. __________________ Rooney CD RE TC HIC 7/10

02-20-2013, 06:09 PM	#54 (permalink)
DunRingill Master Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somerset, NJ Posts: 667	about shipping: my last 3 dogs were shipped to me as babies, from California to NJ. Didn't bother them in the least! __________________ --Regina and the GSDs: UCDX von Sontausen Holy Grail (The BUNNY!) UD,RA,BN,GN, ASCA CDX RAX High in Trial PAM Monster Mike SchH2,UDX,OM1,TD,RE,VER PAM FGDCh Ianna von Sontausen UDX,BH,TD,RE,PT (4.26.1998 - 2.11.2013)

02-20-2013, 09:09 PM	#56 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 13,045	I've shipped many pups, and received shipped pups too, and never had a problem. They pop out at the airport spunky and ready to go. At least pups with good nerves do. Even the ones with ok but less than bombproof nerves are fine. How a dog deals with stress, pups included, shows it's nerves. If they are solid, shipping is no worry. If they are not, and the pup freaks out then... well you know right away from day 1 that it isn't a breeding candidate. Just sayin'. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels*

02-21-2013, 02:02 AM	#59 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,760	"I think if you're looking for a pet...that you'll show and trial...the pedigree matters less." I would say the pedigree always matters -- you may not understand it or appreciate it as a pet buyer , but it always matters . don't worry about shipping -- there is no stress that a good dog can't handle. Just last month sent a 12 week old to Orlando , no problems. Ship and receive all the time . __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

02-20-2013, 04:20 PM	#53 (permalink)
bethany.cole2013 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 165	So after doing much much thinking and as cute as he may be, everyone is right. I would be doing my personal goals no favors by getting him. I've decided that I will let the breeder know this and will get my deposit back. I've also contacted Nick and will be saving up to get a puppy from him in the coming fall when he is expecting a new litter.

02-20-2013, 10:41 PM	#58 (permalink)
cliffson1 Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,944	I agree Chris and Sue, if I thought a puppy that came from Europe or the Americas would be negatively affected by shipping stress, that would not be a puppy I would consider to own.

02-21-2013, 09:08 PM	#60 (permalink)
bethany.cole2013 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 165	Everyone has offered good points about the shipping and nerves correlation. I am wondering, though, how will you know if the puppy can handle the stresses of shipping? Will the breeder be able to tell you or how would you go about knowing this?

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