Breeder Mentor - Page 4

bethany.cole2013 · 11-24-2012, 06:17 PM

I just did a random google search and they primarily breed for prized colors such as mainly livers and whites. They have some really pretty dogs, but I don't necessarily agree with her using her breeding dogs that are DM carriers.

**Andaka** · 11-24-2012, 10:17 PM

Have you read the standard, either from the GSDCA or the SV? Whites and livers (and blues) are not prized colors for breeders who follow either standard.

I do conformation, obedience, agility, herding, etc., with my American Show Lines.

And there have been 3 American Show Line Shutzhund 1 dogs. The 1/2 German show line 1/2 American Show Line dog is now a Schutzhund 3.

Freestep · 11-24-2012, 10:37 PM

Liver and white are not "prized" colors. Both are a disqualifying fault. Backyard breeders claim that liver, blue and white are "rare" colors, and therefore "prized" because they want to sell puppies, but the reason they are rare is that they are undesireable. When they pop up in a reputable breeder's litter, they are placed on non-breeding contracts.

If a breeder is breeding strictly for color, I'm not surprised that they are breeding DM carriers too.

Be careful when perusing breeder websites, there are an awful lot of bad ones out there, spewing a lot of disinformation. Since you're just now starting to learn, you may not recognize certain code words that mark the less-than-reputable breeder, and you might be fooled by some of them. Take anything you read on the internet with a BIG grain of salt, especially breeder websites. There are some people here on this forum, whose knowledge and experience are very trustworthy, and Carmen is one of them, so be sure to do your fact-checking.

Where is that "How to find a reputable breeder" link?

Andaka, who are the AKC showline SchH1's?

bethany.cole2013 · 11-24-2012, 11:55 PM

I knew they weren't prized colors, I was merely being sarcastic. I've read AKC's standard enough to know that it's common knowledge the colors that she is breeding are considered faults. I guess that's why she only shows in UKC conformation. The entire thing of her breeding the DM carriers are what sent red flags off in my head. This breeder does offer pet prices or show/breeding prices on the pups she does produce and I'm wondering if this is just a way to sell the puppies easier to people that don't know any better or if this is actually a well thought out practice. I didn't see a link on her website talking about a puppy questionairre or anything either. Her prices are high especially now knowing that she breeds DM carriers together AND she's breeding for faulty colors and has to show in UKC because of that. I'm working with Carmen and she is going to be sending me her extra copies of the GSD Review magazines for me to look at and learn from. I would love to see any kind of link with some terminology in it to watch out for and how to clearly distinguish a BYB from a reputable breeder by their websites.

carmspack · 11-25-2012, 03:02 AM

extra copies --? wait till you see the boxes of magazines that you are getting !!! So I had a lot of fun at Linda's this afternoon going through some of the oldest issues going back to 1970 . I swear , page after page , we were both holding up pictures - oh look at this one ! -- . What dogs they were . Mind you these are German Shepherd Dog Reviews which is the monthly publication for the German Shepherd Dog Club of America . Those dogs that we looked at in the 1970's issues would be desireable and relevant today when judged against an international standard. They almost had a DDR essence about them. Good bone , good balanced structure - exaggerations not yet . Any one breeding the "american" type should have a look - back to the future , maybe? I picked a few hoping that they will be scanned (when time allows).
OR maybe I will flip through a few of the older issues going to Bethany and she could be so nice as to scan them.

The problem with modern show line GSD's , both "american" and "german" is that they no longer have a period of suspension . See how many pictures you can find , dog in motion, with three legs on the ground !

bethany.cole2013 · 11-25-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmspack

extra copies --? wait till you see the boxes of magazines that you are getting !!! So I had a lot of fun at Linda's this afternoon going through some of the oldest issues going back to 1970 . I swear , page after page , we were both holding up pictures - oh look at this one ! -- . What dogs they were . Mind you these are German Shepherd Dog Reviews which is the monthly publication for the German Shepherd Dog Club of America . Those dogs that we looked at in the 1970's issues would be desireable and relevant today when judged against an international standard. They almost had a DDR essence about them. Good bone , good balanced structure - exaggerations not yet . Any one breeding the "american" type should have a look - back to the future , maybe? I picked a few hoping that they will be scanned (when time allows).
OR maybe I will flip through a few of the older issues going to Bethany and she could be so nice as to scan them.

The problem with modern show line GSD's , both "american" and "german" is that they no longer have a period of suspension . See how many pictures you can find , dog in motion, with three legs on the ground !

Oh I'm going to love this. I love reading and looking at things from the past anyway, so it's going to be especially exciting to be able to see dogs of my favorite breed from the past and read reviews on them. I really can't wait to see these. Thank you, Carmen for doing this. It's really nice of you!

**jocoyn** · 11-25-2012, 11:51 AM

In regard to the DM comment. There is still some controversy as to whether the DM test for the "ALS" version of the gene is hitting the right target, particularly since some dogs have been diagnosed on necropsy (the only definiitive diagnosis) as HAVING DM in spite of the fact they are either normal or carriers. A different reseracher (Clemmons U of F) felt this was an MS variant not an ALS variant

Freestep · 11-25-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bethany.cole2013

Oh I'm going to love this. I love reading and looking at things from the past anyway, so it's going to be especially exciting to be able to see dogs of my favorite breed from the past and read reviews on them. I really can't wait to see these. Thank you, Carmen for doing this. It's really nice of you!

I'm a little jealous.

But I don't want to be a breeder, so this reading material will be best put into the hands of someone who wants to be.

You are incredibly lucky to have had Carmen step up to help you, I can't think of a better person to be in contact with for the purpose of learning about GSDs and their history. Soak it up!

bethany.cole2013 · 11-25-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freestep

I'm a little jealous.

But I don't want to be a breeder, so this reading material will be best put into the hands of someone who wants to be.

You are incredibly lucky to have had Carmen step up to help you, I can't think of a better person to be in contact with for the purpose of learning about GSDs and their history. Soak it up!

I do consider myself extremely blessed to have a person as nice as Carmen willing to help me on my learning journey. I guess it's a good thing that I have a good size bookshelf to put them on =)

carmspack · 11-25-2012, 04:01 PM

I am just the conduit --- the magazines are actually from Linda Shaw -- - . I am wondering if Bethany as we participate in her education, would play it forward and participate in the education of others on this forum. How can you do this. I can flip through some of the older issues and mark them with a book mark. Then if Bethany can scan them so that the pictures of these dogs from days gone by can be shared on the forum. There were some awesome dogs .

11-24-2012, 10:17 PM	#32 (permalink)
Andaka "I like Daffy" Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Douglas, IL ( near St. Louis) Posts: 2,931	Have you read the standard, either from the GSDCA or the SV? Whites and livers (and blues) are not prized colors for breeders who follow either standard. I do conformation, obedience, agility, herding, etc., with my American Show Lines. And there have been 3 American Show Line Shutzhund 1 dogs. The 1/2 German show line 1/2 American Show Line dog is now a Schutzhund 3. __________________ Daphne and the Gang at Andaka Where Beauty and Brains Come Together http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/sear...n_shepherd_dog Home of Ch Natty; Ch Doll; Jag CDX GN RE (ch ptd); Sara RN (ch ptd); and Ch. Fisher (Mr. Evil) At the Bridge: Ch Kahla CD; Ch Keno UD HSAs OA; Ch Kizzy HSAs RE; Ch Tag CD RAE2; Ch Pharra; Bee PT; Ch Red the Dachshund

11-25-2012, 11:51 AM	#37 (permalink)
jocoyn Zombie Queen Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 11,882	In regard to the DM comment. There is still some controversy as to whether the DM test for the "ALS" version of the gene is hitting the right target, particularly since some dogs have been diagnosed on necropsy (the only definiitive diagnosis) as HAVING DM in spite of the fact they are either normal or carriers. A different reseracher (Clemmons U of F) felt this was an MS variant not an ALS variant __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Beau -NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog Waiting at the Bridge (italics=GSDs) (hemangiosarcoma=blue):Grim , Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

11-24-2012, 06:17 PM	#31 (permalink)
bethany.cole2013 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 165	I just did a random google search and they primarily breed for prized colors such as mainly livers and whites. They have some really pretty dogs, but I don't necessarily agree with her using her breeding dogs that are DM carriers.

11-24-2012, 10:37 PM	#33 (permalink)
Freestep Crowned Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,158	Liver and white are not "prized" colors. Both are a disqualifying fault. Backyard breeders claim that liver, blue and white are "rare" colors, and therefore "prized" because they want to sell puppies, but the reason they are rare is that they are undesireable. When they pop up in a reputable breeder's litter, they are placed on non-breeding contracts. If a breeder is breeding strictly for color, I'm not surprised that they are breeding DM carriers too. Be careful when perusing breeder websites, there are an awful lot of bad ones out there, spewing a lot of disinformation. Since you're just now starting to learn, you may not recognize certain code words that mark the less-than-reputable breeder, and you might be fooled by some of them. Take anything you read on the internet with a BIG grain of salt, especially breeder websites. There are some people here on this forum, whose knowledge and experience are very trustworthy, and Carmen is one of them, so be sure to do your fact-checking. Where is that "How to find a reputable breeder" link? Andaka, who are the AKC showline SchH1's?

11-24-2012, 11:55 PM	#34 (permalink)
bethany.cole2013 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 165	I knew they weren't prized colors, I was merely being sarcastic. I've read AKC's standard enough to know that it's common knowledge the colors that she is breeding are considered faults. I guess that's why she only shows in UKC conformation. The entire thing of her breeding the DM carriers are what sent red flags off in my head. This breeder does offer pet prices or show/breeding prices on the pups she does produce and I'm wondering if this is just a way to sell the puppies easier to people that don't know any better or if this is actually a well thought out practice. I didn't see a link on her website talking about a puppy questionairre or anything either. Her prices are high especially now knowing that she breeds DM carriers together AND she's breeding for faulty colors and has to show in UKC because of that. I'm working with Carmen and she is going to be sending me her extra copies of the GSD Review magazines for me to look at and learn from. I would love to see any kind of link with some terminology in it to watch out for and how to clearly distinguish a BYB from a reputable breeder by their websites.

11-25-2012, 03:02 AM	#35 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,552	extra copies --? wait till you see the boxes of magazines that you are getting !!! So I had a lot of fun at Linda's this afternoon going through some of the oldest issues going back to 1970 . I swear , page after page , we were both holding up pictures - oh look at this one ! -- . What dogs they were . Mind you these are German Shepherd Dog Reviews which is the monthly publication for the German Shepherd Dog Club of America . Those dogs that we looked at in the 1970's issues would be desireable and relevant today when judged against an international standard. They almost had a DDR essence about them. Good bone , good balanced structure - exaggerations not yet . Any one breeding the "american" type should have a look - back to the future , maybe? I picked a few hoping that they will be scanned (when time allows). OR maybe I will flip through a few of the older issues going to Bethany and she could be so nice as to scan them. The problem with modern show line GSD's , both "american" and "german" is that they no longer have a period of suspension . See how many pictures you can find , dog in motion, with three legs on the ground !

11-25-2012, 04:01 PM	#40 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,552	I am just the conduit --- the magazines are actually from Linda Shaw -- - . I am wondering if Bethany as we participate in her education, would play it forward and participate in the education of others on this forum. How can you do this. I can flip through some of the older issues and mark them with a book mark. Then if Bethany can scan them so that the pictures of these dogs from days gone by can be shared on the forum. There were some awesome dogs .

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