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Old 09-08-2012, 09:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rshkr View Post
EDIT: you a PJ?
What does this mean??
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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All I could think of was Pajamas...!
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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May I ask what the difference is between a White Shepherd and a White Coated German Shepherd Dog? I've never heard that distinction being made before...
Breeders who refer to their dogs as White Shepherds typically believe the whites would be better served if they were allowed to enter the Foundation Stock Service and work towards becoming a separate breed in the AKC. (this has already been done in the FCI in Europe, the dogs are known as Berger Blanc Suisse - translation is White Swiss Shepherd)
Other breeders believe the whites should remain part of the GSD breed. Some of those same breeders hope to see the AKC/GSDCA remove the disqualifying fault but not all of them. They want to remain part of the breed regardless.

At this point in time regardless of what they're being called, in the AKC they're all registered as white coated GSD's. Here's few links you might find interesting, especially if you plan to breed whites in the future.
American White Shepherd Association www.awsaclub.com
White German Shepherd Dog Club of America http://www.wgsdca.org/
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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What does this mean??
PJ =Para jumper
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:55 AM   #25 (permalink)
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@rshkr: The breeder does want to breed him, but the final decision to do it is up to me. I am weighing the pros and cons of it, which is why I came here and asked my questions. She would love for me to say yes, but I am still not sure. I want to do what is best for my dog and for the GSD breed as a whole. I am happy that we are going to freeze some of his sperm; it gives me the opportunity to find the perfect girl without worrying about having to breed him before he gets too old and in turn, maybe jumping the gun and not finding the best girl with the best lines.

No, I'm not a Parajumper, but the motto of the SAR group I am with is "These things we do...that others may live." Yes, it's the USAF motto, but it works for us. I studied Latin in HS, so I did it in Latin. Finn's full AKC name is Finnian the Irish Lad, as my husband has lots of Irish in him, so I found the Irish translation. We are also both Paramedics and Fire Fighters, our jobs revolve around doing things so that others live...

@Chris Wild: Thank you! That's all I want to do: produce good, strong working dogs. That's why I fell in love with Shepherds in the first place; they are loyal, kind, and loving. They will work until their last breath if it means doing what is right. We are finally going to finish up CGC; I injured my back right before the start of the first class and I found a trainer who's willing to take the extra time to work with us and she is going to help me with some of the specific things I want to work on, but can't do because of my limitations.

@WhiteShepherds: Thanks for that information. I know that there's a push to allow WGSDs into AKC sanctioned shows. I don't see black as a disqualifying fault, but I don't think I've ever seen a solid black shepherd in an AKC show. I sent in the application to the WGSDCA group and I hope to be a part of them soon. By the by, the dog in your Avatar is beautiful.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:09 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I was aware it was a white German Shepherd from the first post. The information the OP presented indicated someone who was trying to do things right with what they had. I just felt that the benefit of positive information given instead of the prosecutorial approach you see from some. Person was new and what they were seeking was not much different than others. Now if I were to come out and openly criticize the bulk of ASL breeders that that also don't meet the test of the prosecutorial police, many ASL people would take offense; likewise if I came out and said very negative things about WGS dogs, I'm sure there would be WGS owners that would be offended and point out the virtues of these dogs. My point is the OP isn't seeking to do anything different then many others that we never challenge.....why challenge them instead of rendering some information about what THEY asked about, instead of what we think they ought to be doing, when we really don't know them. Frankly, the aim of a breeding program is much more important to me. When I hear a person say their goal is to breed the best working dogs they can.....they are in the right pew unlike many others who are critical.
Sorry this upset some, but everyone should be treated with respect, instead of assuming everyone first heard of the breed when they came here. Some people need a lot of education, but first you have to get a feel for where they are....jmo.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:45 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Since I have a retired SAR (cadaver) dog and one in training (who I hope to certify through NAPWDA at 14 months) I will share some of the angst I have gone through.

Does your team train with the police? I know with Beau when we started training with them they evaluated him for drives, nerve strength, fight drive, etc (well within the limits you would do with a one year old) and a gunfire test. Since he will be a team cadaver dog we have the restrictions about doing bitework that don't allow us to fully assess that quality and that bothers me some.

I went through that same angst when Beau's breeder wanted to use Grim (after seeing him working-she is an experienced K9 handler/cadaver dog handler and knows the lines)...Nature took care of that (sperm check low) and I am glad because I think the male she bred to was actually a better choice-partiucularly now that I have Beau and think he will be an even better dog.

Same breeder really may want to use Beau down the line because he was bred for extreme hunt drive, has a common fatherline, no biggy there (linebred cordon an sat) but a less common and very succesful motherline with regards to scentwork and police work (sontausen) -- As I train him, I look HARD for negatives..reasons NOT to breed him in the future....I saw some breeders website where an untitled dog was koered..is that a possibilty-I did not think so? I realize white would be an issue but it would be nice to have objective third party comments on conformation.

That said....I think frozen sperm and dogs can be pretty dicey, expensive and not so successful.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:46 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Shaolin your approach to things is excellent and your involvement providing service outstanding ( We are also both Paramedics and Fire Fighters, our jobs revolve around doing things so that others live...
. ) WOW This takes dedication.
You did say " the opportunity to find the perfect girl " so if I can comment on this -- be aware that this takes more than the PHENOTYPE of the dog , the "girl" and your male . Unless there are the qualities that you are looking for available by the genes - the GENOTYPE , which requires deep research into the pedigree , looking at in not in a linear fashion but into a dimensional way, only then will you have the best chance of getting what you want.

Could I ask why you don't trust your breeder to use your dog (male) responsibly and with best intentions. You did trust them enough to have provided you with this male?

they did come highly recommended by two breeders and "Per the breeder and what the other breeders who recommended her stated, some of her dogs have gone on to do great SAR work, Police work (Possibly in California. I don't remember the specifics), and various other Work/Obedience applications".

They won't be your pups . They always belong to and are the responsibility of the person who has the female - they are "the breeder" not the owner of the stud. The owner of the stud has control deciding whether his male is bred or not . The care and raising and finding homes and guarantees are all on the shoulders of the owner of the female.

If your breeder is this good I would keep visiting or at least speaking with them. Learn which combinations with your dogs genetics worked best. Since they are breeders they are always looking into the future hoping to find those exciting new dogs with breeding potential that would mesh well. Act in co-operation , have them point some dogs out and have them discuss the plus and minus of each combination.

and you said "They will work until their last breath " SOME - FEW -- if only it were so , there are others who have no desire whatsoever -- no drive and no nerve -- some are just not equipped for it .

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Last edited by carmspack; 09-09-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:21 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I just wanted to say... I personally would like to see more WGSDs with true working ability.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #30 (permalink)
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A white working line would be very cool. Unless there is bad health or temperment associated with the color white i think DQing them is a practise that should end.
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