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Old 09-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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@WhiteShepherds: Obviously not in coat color, but when it talks about the body lines (hope I'm using that word correctly), size, and what not. I am very well aware that he cannot compete in the AKC show ring, which is sad, but it is what it is. I would be more than happy to PM you the breeder's name. She came as a recommendation from a breeder in TN and from a breeder in Ohio.

They had both gotten remarkable dogs from her and they had nothing but wonderful things to say about her and her dogs. There was no kennel name. May I ask what the difference is between a White Shepherd and a White Coated German Shepherd Dog? I've never heard that distinction being made before...

I also would probably stick to White or Black. I have no want or desire to be in a Show Ring. Please do not take offense to my next statement, anyone who does show work, but I am more interested in promoting the working aspect of the dog like Obedience, Agility, and Tracking, than I am being told that my dog isn't good enough because his eyes aren't dark enough, or some little nitpicky thing like that. I have the utmost respect for anyone who does Show Work, I really do. It's just not my thing.

@cliffson1: Thank you. I'm just trying to learn what the nuiances of breeding are. My goal is to breed a line of Working Dogs that will be the envy of everyone. It took us four months before we settled on three breeders that we wanted to even email, let alone get a puppy from. I figured that I was in good hands when two highly recommended breeders named the same person (both breeder's entire litters were spoken for.)
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I was aware it was a white German Shepherd from the first post. The information the OP presented indicated someone who was trying to do things right with what they had. I just felt that the benefit of positive information given instead of the prosecutorial approach you see from some. Person was new and what they were seeking was not much different than others. Now if I were to come out and openly criticize the bulk of ASL breeders that that also don't meet the test of the prosecutorial police, many ASL people would take offense; likewise if I came out and said very negative things about WGS dogs, I'm sure there would be WGS owners that would be offended and point out the virtues of these dogs. My point is the OP isn't seeking to do anything different then many others that we never challenge.....why challenge them instead of rendering some information about what THEY asked about, instead of what we think they ought to be doing, when we really don't know them. Frankly, the aim of a breeding program is much more important to me. When I hear a person say their goal is to breed the best working dogs they can.....they are in the right pew unlike many others who are critical.
Sorry this upset some, but everyone should be treated with respect, instead of assuming everyone first heard of the breed when they came here. Some people need a lot of education, but first you have to get a feel for where they are....jmo.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I know some of you are thinking that, "Hey, Cliff, you can get salty sometime!....well that is the truth, but it is never with new people. I try to be helpful, or correct a misperception they may have.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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"I have a 4 year old WGSD that, " then " Finn comes from a good working line." on this point I am confused. He is show line or working line? What working line has whites?
Cliff is right - I don't have a problem either. Can this dog be the fountain of some of the best working dogs ever -- most likely not -- depends on the lines -- but is the idea good - yes it is.
I am always surprised by SAR being offered as a title. I know that in Canada we have some really severe criteria for SAR teams. I know of one extremely dedicated person who maybe after a year and a half missed ONE training session and was asked to not appear again - .
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
How many reputable breeders today are breeding with little more than health checks?, and some titles that any dog can acquire? If they happen to be members of this board they get a pass!
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Shaolin owns a male . That is one of the problems in this discussion. A breeder starts with a female . People don't come knocking your door down to use your male, and if they do the intentions are often wrong (sperm donor and that's about it).
In this case the person wanting to breed already is a breeder . These are lines familiar to them. The possibility
of building this great working line from this male can be revealed by looking at the big picture of what has already been done -- check out all the littermates, grand parents etc. Go deep into the pedigree . At some point you will have to tap in to working lines and that may be a problem because people don't want their dog producing , siring whites. So you are handicapped, and add to the handicap by saying you will probably stick to whites or blacks.

Last edited by carmspack; 09-08-2012 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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OP sorry if you took my post in any bad way but I am pretty much with Cliff on this one. I wouldn't really worry about the future. It sounds like your breeder does know what they're doing and they've asked you for a stud. Like Carmen said, no one is going to be knocking on your door to use your dog, but your breeder who understands the lines he came from and has some idea of what the dog is, asked you for a stud.

If you know the breeder will do everything in their power to check for good homes just like they did with you and also guarantee the puppies like their own, I don't see an issue with it. I wouldn't count on a lot more people coming to ask for your stud services, but if it happens make sure you check them out and understand what their true intentions are.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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@carmspack: Per the breeder and what the other breeders who recommended her stated, some of her dogs have gone on to do great SAR work, Police work (Possibly in California. I don't remember the specifics), and various other Work/Obedience applications.

@cliffson1: Thanks for not treating me like an idiot. I love Shepherds, I have all my life. I was 22 before I got my first GSD after spending a good portion of my life learning everything that I could about the breed. I decided that I wanted to learn how to breed them and create good, strong working dogs. I wish that there were no color faults; I think that there are great dogs with the right stuff to pass on to future generations, but because of color faults or incidental size faults; like an inch on either side, they aren't considered "good quality" dogs.

Then again, I'm just not a Show person, so that's probably why I focus on what the dog can do versus what he looks like.

@martemchik: I wasn't offended with what you had to say. I'm not looking to the future so much with Finn as I am just breeding in general. If he mates and produces a litter of awesome pups, then great. If not, I was blessed with one helluva dog. Either way, I'm happy.
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Finnian The Irish Lad WGSD: SAR
Abeni the Little Warrior: Pomeranian rescue.

"Res nos operor ut alius algo"
"Go mairidís beo"

Last edited by Shaolin; 09-08-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
I decided that I wanted to learn how to breed them and create good, strong working dogs.

I am just breeding in general. If he mates and produces a litter of awesome pups, then great. If not, I was blessed with one helluva dog
i thought your breeder wanted to breed the dog?

you're not even certain...

EDIT: you a PJ?

Last edited by rshkr; 09-08-2012 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Shaolin,
I absolutely think you are on the right track toward breeding; working with an established breeder who is familiar with the lines, doing health tests and testing temperament. As Cliff said, that is far more than many "breeders" do and shows a solid, balanced focus on producing good dogs. Conformation titles are good, but since the goal is to produce dogs with some working ability I would focus on other things, such as the obedience titles and SAR certification you metioned. Of course, ideally do both, but if you have to choose go for those that tell the most about the dog's character, and that is of utmost importance. Plus it sounds like those are the areas you are the most familiar with and interested in.
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