lmlloyd's thread: should GSD's be outcrossed?

[Freestep]

Against my better judgement, I'm continuing the "Artica" thread that swayed off topic and got shut down. I had a no-show this afternoon and I am bored, I so I'm starting up where the "Artica" thread left off...

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

Ah yes, the troll card.

Oh look, I don't like what he is saying, he must be a troll. I'm amazed it has taken this long for someone to decide that is the best way to deal with a dissenting opinion.

It has nothing to do with whether we agree or not. In fact, I actually agree with you on some points. But you present your argument in a style and tone that is condescending, negative, and deliberately inflammatory. As you may remember from your high school debating team, this type of argument is often effective in getting people angry, but it is not highly regarded as a cogent, logical, or persuasive argument, and will not win you points.

I think your point was "German Shepherds should be outcrossed". You're not the first person to think that, talk about it, or even do it, so your idea is not unique, and your argument has already been presented in many ways. If you want to have a constructive, elucidating discussion rather than make jeering snipes about how stupid and closed-minded everybody else is (and yes, that is what trolls do), you might want to alter your approach.

So I'll ask: What breed do you think we ought to outcross to?

[selzer]

Isn't outcrossing just when you breed a GSD to another GSD where there is no line breeding within so many generations.

[shepherdmom]

Originally Posted by Freestep

So I'll ask: What breed do you think we ought to outcross to?

Missed the original thread, but someone were to outcross Shepherds it needs to be to a more stable temperment. Maybe a St. Bernard ?

[Emoore]

Hasn't that been tried? Shilohs, Shepalutes, etc?

[selzer]

For as relatively few Saint Bernards, overall population, I remember two incidents where Saints have killed small children. I do not think Saint Bernards would be the best candidate to improve temperament in GSDs, who for there much larger numbers, have a relatively few number of fatalities when you look at it with respect to population.

Maybe crossing GSDs to English Setters. But then, you would probably get are really stupid, docile, funny looking dog.

[Lucy Dog]

What would be the point? To get away from what the German Shepherd is even more?

Would this strictly be for the pet market?

[Andaka]

And if we outcross to another breed to fix, say, temperament, what other probems are we going to cause?

The breed is already splintered enough as it is, and unless you are careful about what you are breeding, the lines can be dangerous to cross.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

What would be the point? To get away from what the German Shepherd is even more?

Would this strictly be for the pet market?

You'd have to ask lmlloyd. He/she is the one who is lamenting about the state of the GSD and blaming the small gene pool (amongst other things).

As to St. Bernard, I believe that mixing GSDs and Mastiff-type dogs has been done, I can't remember what the breeder named her mix, but it was basically a mix of GSD, Malamute, and Mastiff. The breeder wanted to sort of mellow out the GSD drives and make more of a laid-back temperament. A better "family" temperament. I do not know whether the experiment was successful. For the sake of discussion I will leave my opinion out of it for now.

If the GSD were truly in a position that it needed to be crossed with another breed in order to survive, I would first look to the landrace herding dogs in Germany, the types that went into the making of the GSD in the first place. Although, some years ago I talked to an old Geman breeder who said this had been tried, and that there was "nothing to gain" from such crosses.

In some European countries, GSDs are routinely crossed with Malinois and Dutch Shepherd to make police and sport dogs. Personally, I would not want to see the GSD go this route. A Malinois is a Malinois and a GSD is (and should be) something different; GSD already have nerve issues and the addition of a high-drive, low-threshold breed would be counterproductive IMO.

Then again, I'm not a breeder because I wouldn't want to make these kinds of decisions.

[shepherdmom]

Originally Posted by selzer

For as relatively few Saint Bernards, overall population, I remember two incidents where Saints have killed small children. I do not think Saint Bernards would be the best candidate to improve temperament in GSDs, who for there much larger numbers, have a relatively few number of fatalities when you look at it with respect to population.

Maybe crossing GSDs to English Setters. But then, you would probably get are really stupid, docile, funny looking dog.

well I don't know, I'm not a breader. I was just thinkng they were big and loyal. I hadn't heard of any with bad temperments. I would have suggested Akita but I know that some of them have bad temperments too.

[Mrs.K]

Nope. No outcrossing... that is just going to open up a whole other can of worms.

If you want crosses, there are already breeders with Mal/GSD mixes. That's the only mix I would get and even those can be tricky.