lmlloyd's thread: should GSD's be outcrossed?

[cliffson1]

@ Whitesshepherd....Certainly, look at the different type of extremes in the different lines. This was never meant to be(extremes) from a dog made up of at least 3 or 4 type of dogs. Before the seventies, you never saw a Show or Working winner that was always the same color or same body type, or extreme angles, or extreme prey drive. You can't develop these themes by opening up the genepool, only by closing it, to using dogs that give these characteristics. And guess what, BYB didn't do this....supposedly reputable breeders have advanced this. Also, its a scientific fact that with close breeding and backmassing over long periods of time health and mental health suffers(ever heard of incest)....think about lines with heaviest inbreeding or backmassing and you will find the highest incidences of health issues and mental health issues. Now please, lets not have some imbecile come on here and say " Oh this lines never has any health or mental health issues", I'm not saying that and obviously reading comphrehension isn't your strong suit, BUT the more you find it the HIGHER incidence of these things occurring is what I am saying.....unequivocally!!! And supposedly reputable passionate knowledgable breeders would never use breeding practices that are certain to increase health/mental health.....Would they????????

[Mrs.K]

Here we go again... the same discussion over and over and over again...

We all know what the problem is. We all know how it's made. Problem is, it's too lucrative not to change it. The only thing you can do, and in the US it's actually possible, is to breed outside the box!

[Liesje]

Are we talking outcrossing to other lines or other breeds? I was assuming Freestep was referring to other breeds.

I won't agree or disagree. I've seen people put a LOT more thought, experience, and research into crossing breeds than most people that breed purebred GSDs.

[Lakl]

I don't think the argument was whether or not there was a problem in backmassing within the breed. It was about whether or not there was a large enough gene pool for knowledgeable breeders to consistently produce sound dogs - health and temperament wise, without going outside the breed?

[bocron]

My issue with this is that I don't think there is another breed that would be complement the GSD and isn't just as fraught with issues. So it's out of the frying pan into the fire.
For example, someone mentioned the St.Bernard back at the beginning of the thread. I wonder if that person has spent much time with modern day Americanized St. Bernards? I've been around a dozen or so in the last 5-6 years in our training business. They seem to be extremely slow witted and/or extremely fear/aggressive. Once again, not at all the breed I remember as a child (my neighbors always had one).
I just don't know what you'd go to assuming you are considering outcrossing to another breed.

[Debbieg]

I do not want to see the GSD purposely mixed with other breeds.

I think we have a very large gene pool that knowleagable people with time, patience could use to improve the breed, but many choose to stay in a little crowded pool.

However here is a website that has much success in mixing breeds for sport. I have met a few of these dogs and they are very nice do well in flyball agility as Lies was saying

Blue Cedar Sport Dogs

[shepherdmom]

Originally Posted by bocron

For example, someone mentioned the St.Bernard back at the beginning of the thread. I wonder if that person has spent much time with modern day Americanized St. Bernards?

That was me, I've never spent any time around a St. Bernard. I was just tossing idea's out there to get the conversation rolling. Only Lucy Dog got where I was coming from.

"Is beethoven still available for stud? He was a pretty cool st bernard. "

Now that is exactly the St. Bernard I was thinking of.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by shepherdmom

That was me, I've never spent any time around a St. Bernard. I was just tossing idea's out there to get the conversation rolling. Only Lucy Dog got where I was coming from.

"Is beethoven still available for stud? He was a pretty cool st bernard. "

Now that is exactly the St. Bernard I was thinking of.

Yeah, but Beethoven is for the St.Bernards what RinTinTin is for the Shepherds.

[bocron]

Originally Posted by shepherdmom

That was me, I've never spent any time around a St. Bernard. I was just tossing idea's out there to get the conversation rolling. Only Lucy Dog got where I was coming from.

"Is beethoven still available for stud? He was a pretty cool st bernard. "

Now that is exactly the St. Bernard I was thinking of.

Lol I got it, I was just pointing out that almost every breed has developed many of the same issues we are facing in the GSD. Even the "companion" breeds have managed to create many of the same problems just on a different plane.

Oh and didn't Beethoven manage to almost wreck the house and the guy's career in every movie? And the drool!!

[shepherdmom]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

Yeah, but Beethoven is for the St.Bernards what RinTinTin is for the Shepherds.

If I remember correctly in one of the movies his puppies not only popped out fully trained but they were also talking. Now that's what I'm looking for in a puppy.