lmlloyd's thread: should GSD's be outcrossed?

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by shepherdmom

well I don't know, I'm not a breader. I was just thinkng they were big and loyal. I hadn't heard of any with bad temperments. I would have suggested Akita but I know that some of them have bad temperments too.

Is beethoven still available for stud? He was a pretty cool st bernard.

[marbury]

Its done every day in back yards, vacant lots, and trash dumps across the USA. And we see tens of thousands of them in animal control holding pens and gassing chambers from coast to coast.
I'd say that's a heck of a breeding program, and look what it's gotten us. I think it's a safe bet that there has probably already been almost every GSD mix possible at one point or another, and although hybrid vigor will get you a 'healthier' dog in the short run you sacrifice any semblance of control over what you get the moment you abandon your known lineage.

[selzer]

Hybrid vigor is a myth last I heard. If you breed a GSD with a questionable hip history with a Lab or Golden with a questionable hip history, you are going to get a mess of puppies with as bad of a risk of hip problems as if you bred those dogs within their breeds.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Emoore

Hasn't that been tried? Shilohs, Shepalutes, etc?

2 of the stupidest, most aggressive dogs I've ever known were my sisters Saint Bernards, and they were not related, just horrible temperaments and dumber than a box of rocks.

[LARHAGE]

I personally would rather just see superior dogs of all the different lines being bred into each other than going out to another breed, for one , NO BREED is perfect. I love the German Shepherd, I don't want Husky or Malinois in it, for that matter I rather have a mutt of my choice, or just stick to my little rotten terriers. I personally love my German Shepherds.

[Freestep]

I might go so far as to say Labrador. Every GSD/Lab mix I've ever met was a good dog. High energy, yes--but overall stable, honest temperaments. My first dog was believed to be a GSD/Lab cross, and she was awesome.

But let me be clear--I don't think the answer to the GSD's problems is outcrossing. Hip problems are prevalent in almost every large breed (save for the sighthounds). Allergies are prevalent accross the board in pure and mixed breeds. Maybe the incidence of Pannus would be reduced, but then again, with outcrossing you never know what problems you might be introducing.

I don't think the GSD gene pool is dangerously small, but the backmassing that is often seen in pedigrees is concerning. I think that if a line needs new blood, they ought to go to another GSD line. Very carefully and with due diligence, of course.

[Lakl]

What bothered me was that his whole point was that he believed that the GSD gene pool was too small in order for any breeders to seriously think they were improving the breed or could consistently produce good stock, and that all the hype behind accomplishments and titles was just more or less a way for breeders to pretend that a problem did not exist (in a nutshell).

IMO, he was basing all of this off of a couple genetics articles he read, one which started off stating that they didn't like German Shepherds, his own personal experience with a weak nerved dog, and a few people he'd spoken to who had chosen to purchase bad breeding stock. His mind was set that the entire breed was doomed and was probably better off being crossed with other breeds. My hope was that we could bring more knowledgeable breeders into the discussion to delve into the whole genetics debate about this breed, as he seem solidly closed-minded to any argument contrary to his beliefs.

[JakodaCD OA]

it's ridiculous to think that the GSD's gene pool is to small. My gosh, there is a whole world of GSD's out there to 'pick' from.

There is no need to outcross to another breed, I for one, want a GSD, not one mixed with a different breed.

It's pretty easy to find a GOOD GSD, all you have to do is find a good breeder which there are many

[Lakl]

Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA

it's ridiculous to think that the GSD's gene pool is to small. My gosh, there is a whole world of GSD's out there to 'pick' from.

There is no need to outcross to another breed, I for one, want a GSD, not one mixed with a different breed.

It's pretty easy to find a GOOD GSD, all you have to do is find a good breeder which there are many

I whole heartedly agree!

[Jack's Dad]

You people are missing the point.

I mean look how well out crossing has worked for humanity.