lmlloyd's thread: should GSD's be outcrossed? - Page 10 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 07-03-2012, 12:58 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Uncommon breeds often have health issues due to genetic bottlenecks & shallow gene pools, and popular breeds have health issues resulting from poor breeding practices.
Interesting this is what we had already said

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I think
And that's all the rest of this is, is a bunch of postulations.

To even say this or that breed is "in crisis", is to ignore the good things that are going on with the breed. I'm sure there's many breeders breeding functional dogs that would beg to differ.
Just because one sect or another is doing things back-asswards doesn't mean everyone is.

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If you really want to hurt me for treating you so mean,
I don't want to "hurt you", I don't even know you - but neither do you know me and your attitude that nobody is worthy of discussing things on here isn't going to fly.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:59 AM   #92 (permalink)
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@ dogaroo.....very knowledgable informative post that many can learn from in assessing the situation with this breed.....you should post more often, it would benefit all of us.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:18 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Fast, some breed tests are tough and potentially detrimental because they are subject to the human eye and ideals of the moment. Real world herding and stockdog trials works because cattle won't follow trends; they may try to whip around and trample a dog and the dog can either run or put the cattle back in place. If the cattle chores are completed by that dog, it is probably good. Even better if it is working daily. Same with real hunt tests. If the bag is filled at the end of a hunt trial and the dog retrived all shot birds, it is probably good. Again, better if it is hunted regularly in all sorts of conditions. Either the dog can find and retrieve birds or it can't. Seems that they use easier breeding qualifications, too. Does it herd well and has good health and endurance and can live with the family? Then breed it with that dog that shows the same traits. Does it do great on pheasant and grouse? In fields and in brush? Cool, breed it with that dog that hunts pheasant and quail and sometimes ducks. If the dog doesn't hunt, don't breed it.

What would you propose for the GSD?

Also, there is a difference between really popular breeds and breeds that have a decent population but aren't on everyone's wish lists. I believe it also depends on how breeds came about. If they were built on generations of dogs chosen because they were working similar tasks, many issues would have been weeded out over time simply because "that dog is useless/breaks down/dumber than mud." Appearance varied widely but a general phenotype formed just based on the tasks. Look at the histories of terriers and spaniels and foxhounds and collies. Breeds then differentiated further based on specific tasks. Cockers were differentiated from springers just because size made them better suited to smaller birds. Then the show people said "ooooh pretty" and destroyed the American cocker spaniel and split the English springer into show/working lines.

Can't comment on otterhounds only to say I met one. Sucker took a few hours to dry with a K9-II blower and had one heck of an oily coat. Very patient dog, though.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:09 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I disagree with the generalization about uncommon breeds and popular breeds. One of the breeds I like, the siberian husky, isn't as popular or common as the german shepherd, but the siberian breed has a lot less problems with hip dysplasia and is generally a more healthy breed than a lot of breeds. Siberians have a very small gene pool, with ALL siberians, especially in the states, coming from only 26 dogs.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:14 PM   #95 (permalink)
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If I were a breeder and it came down to outcrossing to save the german shepherd breed, I would go back to where it all began. Wolves.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:27 PM   #96 (permalink)
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GSD Fan, horrrrrible idea. A lot of temperament issues in the GSD may be due to early introductions of wolf blood. The people involved early on learned their lesson and left the wolf where it belongs. Do some reading on the subject, especially if you can get your hands on the Von Stephanitz book, and you'll realize that wolves are temperamentally similar and yet way too different to have any benefit.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:36 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Fred Lanting at one time wrote:
"An interesting side-note is that there are still a few white German Shepherd Dogs (and recognized by that name) in Germany and Holland that trace their heritage directly to the white GSDs of the early 1900s - 1920s, despite not being allowed registration by the SV. They represent an untapped (as yet) vein of rich genetic gems for the future of the White Shepherd."

Wouldn't it stand to reason that there are also some uptapped genes in the GSD's that are bred to the standard? Maybe out there doing real work just not involved in Sch, shows, etc. so their names aren't well known?
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:23 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds View Post
Fred Lanting at one time wrote:
"An interesting side-note is that there are still a few white German Shepherd Dogs (and recognized by that name) in Germany and Holland that trace their heritage directly to the white GSDs of the early 1900s - 1920s, despite not being allowed registration by the SV. They represent an untapped (as yet) vein of rich genetic gems for the future of the White Shepherd."

Wouldn't it stand to reason that there are also some uptapped genes in the GSD's that are bred to the standard? Maybe out there doing real work just not involved in Sch, shows, etc. so their names aren't well known?
And maybe those untapped genes could do much to help shepherds of all colors?
How do we determine which dogs have these needed untapped genes ? Do we need to change criteria and consider breedworthy only dogs actively working in SAR, Police K9, Herding, Tracking, Service Dogs etc... But not everyone who purchases a pup from one of these dogs, will want to do that type of work, so how to determine if their dog should be bred?
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:26 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Hello.
I don't know how diverse is the gene pool of the GSDs, but the fact that they are numerous doesn't mean they have a lot of diversity, there could be millions of GSDs but if the founding population was of only, lets say 50 unrelated dogs, the effective population of those millions would be at best of only 50 dogs.

Here are a few interesting articles:

Only 8 Border Collies

Breed islands

Dog Breeds are Closed Populations

Dogs were not created by inbreeding

Considering Odd Colors in Salukis

Herefords and heterosis

Bye.
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