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Old 05-01-2012, 01:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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So I have narrowed down my choice of breeders for my next shepherd (in 2-4 years) to Von Lotta and Sequoyah shepherds. Nowww to my questionish part (notice that I do want opinions, but please do not be RUDE). Also, wasn't sure where to put this?

So, I have decided I would like to get involved in SchH and possibly showing. I am going to use the next few years to research and learn as much as possible about doing both. I am also going to check out some local clubs. (: I also plan to get the CGC I had previously decided my next shepherd would be male, so as I thought about it I began thinking about the fact that I do not plan to neuter without medical reason (please do not focus on this and start a war people. I have never neutered my males).
That being said, the thought crossed my mind of breeding.
Now, I want opinions on my decision. (:
IF he gets titled in SchH, passes for hips/elbows, passes for health testing, has a proper temperament and (if I do show) can do well in that as well I think I may want to stud him out to TRUSYWORTHY people. I plan on getting limited registration to begin with and explaining my plans to the breeder upfront. If he proves to be a male that would pass on good genetics in the breed, I will pay the breeder to have him/her lift the limitations.
The terms for myself are that not only must I approve of the female, but so must yhe breeder and a third party. She will be required to be ofa, temperament tested (or have two professional references on her temperament), titled or working, of a pedigree that a more experienced breeder agrees would work well with my male's, must be health tested/checked, between two and six years of age, and must have NO direct kinship to my male. Linebreeding is possible, but there will be NO inbreeding.

Does anyone have any opinions on what I should add or change? I would prefer answers from breeders or those who are knowledgeable enough to give me some good intell (:
Thank you so much for your time guys! I know it was a long post!
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Also, if anyone knows a good website to go to and learn about showing, cgc or SchH I would greatly appreciate it (: Google is giving me trouble.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think that is a pretty good start. I think you also need to be a pedigree expert, and know the lines, and know what each dog in a pedigree brings into the breeding. Also start reading the old posts in the breeder sections, and the pedigree/bloodlines section as an example of what I'm talking about. When you have the insight into the lines and the dogs and what each individual dog in a pedigree bring to a mating, like how many of the breeders on here can discuss in depth, then you are getting there.

Also give yourself more time. Achieving all you plan on achieving will take years. And when you get your first dog for training and titling, think of it as a learning dog, not a stud, otherwise, your judgement can be clouded from the beginning. Now if he turns out phenomenal, then good for you!
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I am not a breeder, but I am currently being mentored in breeding siberian huskies.

I noticed you said "NO inbreeding". Do you think inbreeding is a bad thing?

In breeding is not necessarily a bad thing. Breeding a father to his daughter or breeding a son to his mother can show what's going wrong in your breeding program. It and linebreeding are a way that breeders establish their kennel or breeding program.

I believe you have a lot to learn. Then again, german shepherds might be a little different than breeding siberians. It could be that inbreeding shepherds is as not as acceptable, but I believe it is. inbreeding is breeding in general.

Also, I recommend you get a female instead of a male to show and title. Females are harder to handle with heats and whelping, but with females it's easier to build a breeding program.

Another thing that is concerning me is you have narrowed it down to a working breeder and a show line breeder. Why not narrow it down to a specific type of german shepherd?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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also keep in mind, you can learn ALOT from either of those breeders , they can direct you, mentor you, give you an opinion on "if" the dog you get (after you accomplish what you want with him), would be a breeding option.

You would also have to check to see if the dog you purchase, if on a limited registration, if the breeder would be willing to lift that for breeding purposes, of course in the future
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Only thing I have to mention is that its not really your choice to stud when you own the male. You can post his picture all over god's green earth and if he's not worthy of studding, no one will want to. The hips/certs/titles all help prove to the bitch owner that this is a dog they want to breed with, but there are so many studs out there that its really something you have to get into 110% and spend a lot of money on your dog just to get him to a point where a good, reputable breeder will want to include your stud in their program.

I've noticed that the people willing to breed because your dog is "beautiful" or "behaves so well" aren't really the ones you want to have any ties to.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I think Yuliya at von Lotta always sells her puppies on limited registration until you get a BH/hips/elbows/SG. After that she will upgrade you to full registration.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I think it's great that people who want to get into breeding start off with a stud - great way to learn about the breed and temperament as one goes along doing all the training, titling, talking to experienced people. THEN if they do have a noteworthy stud that has achieved much, then owners of worthy bitches will seek them out. That will give the new wanna-be breeder the signal that they are doing something right. As the owner of a female, people can start breeding her at any time without really understanding WHAT they are breeding.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Also one kennel is showline and the other is working line? Any reason why? What is your goal? Use your answers to that question to fine-tune your search.

IPO rules:
United Schutzhund Clubs of America - Schutzhund Training
Leerburg | Schutzhund Rules Table of Contents

SV conformation:
*credit to Lies* google "entering dog SV show" and you will see an article written by Liesje. It's very thorough and well-written.
SV vs AKC: The German Sieger Show and Other SV-Style Shows
Watch a SV show: 2010 SV Bundessieger Zuchtschau Nürnberg GHKL Hundinen part(1) - YouTube
sv bundessieger zuchtschau in aachen 12/14sptembre 2008 - YouTube

AKC conformation: American Kennel Club - A Beginner's Guide to Dog Shows
AKC ob: American Kennel Club - Obedience
AKC rally/agility/ob: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/GOCET1.pdf


Also...not to be rude, but there is more to a stud male than being conformationally sound and possessing a working ability. This business is not entirely based on merit. How well you campaign and what kind of connections you have can sometimes be more valuable in getting your stud out there than possessing actual ability. Go with a female if you want to breed. There's a very small chance that you will be able to get a stud quality male. Think about it. A male can potentially be studded till he dies at 10 years old. A female has 3-4 litters between age 2-7 and then gets retired from breeding. It's going to be a LOT harder to squeeze your male into the running when there are so many really GOOD males around already that have proven breeding ability. Remember a good dog doesn't have to necessarily produce well. Some dogs can excel in the ring or field, and be no good at producing pups, while other dogs are mediocre-looking (in terms of conformation) and produce very nice puppies. So really what I mean by all that is...by having stringent restrictions on who can use your male when you don't have an established foothold in the business means that you are probably not going to have too many females inquiring about your male. And the females who DO inquire are probably not worth your time. Now I could be completely wrong and you can get a fantastic stud male right away...but most likely that won't happen so if you are really interested in breeding, think about a female. Then YOU get to pick, you don't have to wait around to get picked

Most of us go into something with an idealization, but after we are faced with reality, we reshape our expectations to catch up with reality. When I first started looking into working dogs, I thought I would be able to slap on a V and SchH3 on my dog no problem! Now that I'm in it...I realize just how difficult it all is and how much work breeders/handlers put into their dogs. It's not an easy road. So if I were you, I would do it for the love of the game. Do it because you love it and if breeding is in your future, it will happen. Most of us won't breed our first competition dog. Use your dog as a learning tool. You'll see what I mean when you get the dog and start competing
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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As far as the choice of breeders, they are very different lines/types so I would wonder why those two are the final choices and how you will decide between them?
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