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Old 04-15-2012, 03:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default How do you know you are ready to get a possible foundation female?

How do you know? I do know if I get in this associate's program, it will be two years. Okay, then I get licensed or certified. Then I get a job, and a house and some land in a desired state or area.

My question is, how do you know when you are ready to get your first breeding quality dog? Would it be wise to get a foundation female before getting a house and land, like while I'm living in a temporary apartment or rental?

If I have to wait til I get a house and some land, instead of 2 years I'm looking at 3-4 years. I'm just wondering do I have to wait that long.

Just in case I get asked, I want to breed for a lot of reasons. What powers my passion is love of dogs, the desire to better dogs in general, and my love of the breed or breeds I will breed.

I still want to breed siberians, but I might end up changing my mind in these few years. I don't know, but the desire to breed siberians is still there.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wait as long as you can. Learn as much as you can in the meantime.
Keeping dogs on rental properties is no easy task. Especially if you want to whelp a litter. I know someone that whelped a working litter in his apartment. He said he will never be able to clean the poop off his walls, carpet and ceiling He's paying hundreds in damages and will have a hard time renting again.

Do not make any plans to breed before you are established with a job and home. Think about it this way. What if you find the perfect bitch, train her, show her and breed her...then what if you (hopefully not) get evicted, lose your job or have a financial emergency? It will be heartbreaking to make the choice to get rid of your dog.

Calm down, get your life sorted and established, learn learn learn in the meantime and take it slowly. Establish yourself and prove yourself to the breeding world by showing/training. Breeding will come if it needs to happen...
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wait as long as you can. Learn as much as you can in the meantime.
Keeping dogs on rental properties is no easy task. Especially if you want to whelp a litter. I know someone that whelped a working litter in his apartment. He said he will never be able to clean the poop off his walls, carpet and ceiling He's paying hundreds in damages and will have a hard time renting again.

Do not make any plans to breed before you are established with a job and home. Think about it this way. What if you find the perfect bitch, train her, show her and breed her...then what if you (hopefully not) get evicted, lose your job or have a financial emergency? It will be heartbreaking to make the choice to get rid of your dog.

Calm down, get your life sorted and established, learn learn learn in the meantime and take it slowly. Establish yourself and prove yourself to the breeding world by showing/training. Breeding will come if it needs to happen...
I wasn't thinking of whelping a litter in an apartment, I was thinking that while I title her and get her hips and eyes certified, I would live in something temporary. Then when I was ready to breed her, I would have a house by then.

How can you train and show if you don't have a dog to do it with?
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wasn't implying that you would birth a litter in an apartment. It's just an example of how people that aren't ready are breeding and facing the consequences. After you get to a place where you are settled, then go ahead and breed because right now, home/land is in the future and not a materialized reality.

How many dogs do you have now? Are you planning on breeding Huskies or GSDs? I'm confused on this one. What is the time frame if you plan on buying, showing and titling a female? What if she is a wash out? Will you keep her? How many can you realistically keep on a rental property?

From what I've seen, usually this is how it goes:
-breeder breeds litter
-pick pups are kept behind or sold to breeder's friends or people the breeder KNOWS will title/show and therefore keep the stock going. Breeder has no reason to sell show quality pups to companion homes. He doesn't want his best stock not out there "improving" the breed and this is understandable. If I bred, I want my pups to go to homes that develop their full potential.
-pick pups just hang out for awhile so the breeder can see how they develop
-pup is shown in local shows and breeder takes into account what the judges say. Pup gets a few VPs under his belt.
-pup continues to develop on the rag
-If at this point, pup doesn't develop well or doesn't have the drives for Schh, pup is rehomed as a companion dog.

Now if you're lucky, your female will have what it takes and you can continue showing/titling. But like I said, unless you have a good relationship with your breeder and you can vouch for your ambitions (showing/titling), the breeder will most likely not home a show/work quality dog to you. This is why most people's first dogs are just for practice. We show/train our first dogs knowing they will not be breeding dogs. But these dogs prove to the breeder, trainers and dog world that you can and will put in the effort to title/show a dog. Now Whiskey will never be a stud male. But he proves that I am willing to put in the effort and time into seriously showing/titling my dog. My breeders now consider me a "show home" and my next dog from them will be better for the conformation/IPO venues.

So rather than thinking about foundation bitches, just get a dog for you. Show it for fun, title it for fun and be in that world. Going into this world with the mindset that you want to breed isn't the right approach IMO. Go into it because you love dogs and want to work with them. Breeding will come if that is right for you.

The OTHER way you can do it is to purchase a titled, rated and breed-surveyed bitch from Germany. There are plenty of these you can find. Find a kennel that relates to your breeding philosophy, establish a relationship with them and purchase a V rated/KK1/IPO1 female. Added bonus if this female has already been bred once and you know she is a proven producer. Then from this female, you can keep your pick pups and develop those into a small breeding program. Keep in mind that the last female I saw flown in from Germany went for 35k so ask yourself if this is financially doable at this point in your life.

If I were you, I would do this: Get a solid pup from a reputable US breeder. Title/show/train that pup, but don't go into it thinking you will breed her because this is going to set you up for failure. Just enjoy her and LEARN as much as you can. Then once you have your own home, have a steady income and are established, purchase a foundation female if you want and start a breeding program. Know that you will not make any money and will lose a lot when you start so it's better if you are in a place in your life where you can shoulder these unexpected burdens. I am in no way trying to discourage you. Just telling you to not put the cart in front of the horse...
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think getting a puppy sooner rather than later is better. That being said there is no guarantee that any dog you will get as a puppy will be breeding quality. But at least this way you will have experience training and raising a dog and if it turns out she is not breeding quality then oh well. At least you were able to focus on one dog and get some experience.

I agree no reason at this point to go out looking for a foundation female. Get some experience with the breed first.
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What you can do is get a nice male -- show it to its championship, get the health certifications. Learn what you can from the dog about the trials and tribulations of having majors break, having the dog not be a good as you had hoped, and how difficult it is to train a dog.

By then you will have graduated, found a house, etc. and will know more about your chosen breed, dog shows, and dog training. And you may have proven yourself suitable for a breeding quality bitch.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qbchottu View Post
Wasn't implying that you would birth a litter in an apartment. It's just an example of how people that aren't ready are breeding and facing the consequences. After you get to a place where you are settled, then go ahead and breed because right now, home/land is in the future and not a materialized reality.
I agree.

Quote:
How many dogs do you have now? Are you planning on breeding Huskies or GSDs? I'm confused on this one. What is the time frame if you plan on buying, showing and titling a female? What if she is a wash out? Will you keep her? How many can you realistically keep on a rental property?
I have zero dogs at the moment. My last dog was a siberian husky, who I rehomed after 2-3 months. I will not get a dog until I have a house or my own place to stay.

The breed I am focused on is siberians or siberian huskies. The time frame would be 2 years before I graduate, but now I am unsure after I graduate when is an ideal time frame to get a foundation female.

I have no idea how many dogs you can keep on a rental propery. As for if my first female is a wash out or doesn't fit my standard for what I am looking for . . . I never thought of that. I guess I would keep her as a pet and get another show quality female pup.

Quote:
From what I've seen, usually this is how it goes:
-breeder breeds litter
-pick pups are kept behind or sold to breeder's friends or people the breeder KNOWS will title/show and therefore keep the stock going. Breeder has no reason to sell show quality pups to companion homes. He doesn't want his best stock not out there "improving" the breed and this is understandable. If I bred, I want my pups to go to homes that develop their full potential.
-pick pups just hang out for awhile so the breeder can see how they develop
-pup is shown in local shows and breeder takes into account what the judges say. Pup gets a few VPs under his belt.
-pup continues to develop on the rag
-If at this point, pup doesn't develop well or doesn't have the drives for Schh, pup is rehomed as a companion dog.
This sounds like a german shepherd breeding process. Siberians are a little different. You know a show quality puppy around 8 weeks, although it's a crap shoot. He or she may not develop or may not turn out.

It sounds like with German shepherds, you not only have to see if they fit the standard in structure, but you have to wait a while to see if their temperament is what you are looking for.


Quote:
Now if you're lucky, your female will have what it takes and you can continue showing/titling. But like I said, unless you have a good relationship with your breeder and you can vouch for your ambitions (showing/titling), the breeder will most likely not home a show/work quality dog to you. This is why most people's first dogs are just for practice. We show/train our first dogs knowing they will not be breeding dogs. But these dogs prove to the breeder, trainers and dog world that you can and will put in the effort to title/show a dog. Now Whiskey will never be a stud male. But he proves that I am willing to put in the effort and time into seriously showing/titling my dog. My breeders now consider me a "show home" and my next dog from them will be better for the conformation/IPO venues.

So rather than thinking about foundation bitches, just get a dog for you. Show it for fun, title it for fun and be in that world. Going into this world with the mindset that you want to breed isn't the right approach IMO. Go into it because you love dogs and want to work with them. Breeding will come if that is right for you.
That's actually not a bad idea. So I get a show quality stud, finish his CH, and that would prove to breeders that I'm determined and have what it takes. Who knows, maybe he can be a stud, depending on how he turns out and his temperament. That's not a bad idea at all. I would get experience and by the time I get my foundation female, I would know the ropes.

Good.

Quote:

The OTHER way you can do it is to purchase a titled, rated and breed-surveyed bitch from Germany. There are plenty of these you can find. Find a kennel that relates to your breeding philosophy, establish a relationship with them and purchase a V rated/KK1/IPO1 female. Added bonus if this female has already been bred once and you know she is a proven producer. Then from this female, you can keep your pick pups and develop those into a small breeding program. Keep in mind that the last female I saw flown in from Germany went for 35k so ask yourself if this is financially doable at this point in your life.

If I were you, I would do this: Get a solid pup from a reputable US breeder. Title/show/train that pup, but don't go into it thinking you will breed her because this is going to set you up for failure. Just enjoy her and LEARN as much as you can. Then once you have your own home, have a steady income and are established, purchase a foundation female if you want and start a breeding program. Know that you will not make any money and will lose a lot when you start so it's better if you are in a place in your life where you can shoulder these unexpected burdens. I am in no way trying to discourage you. Just telling you to not put the cart in front of the horse...
So what do you mean that going into it wanting to breed sets you up for failure? What do you mean "putting the cart in front of the horse"?
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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My honest opinion regarding breeding of ANY dog or breed......
YOUR FOUNDATION STOCK IS VERY IMPORTANT.....don't skimp.
Your foundation (as with ALL foundations of anything) is the *base* of your future.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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how can someone other than yourself tell you if
you're ready to get a foundation dog? if you don't know
if you're ready for a foundation dog then you're
probably not ready. if i were going to breed i would
make sure i have the money to breed, the time and a
place to breed. i would also learn about the different
lines and have a purpose for putting 2 dogs together
to mate or than their GSD's.

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My question is, how do you know when you are ready to get your first breeding quality dog?
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiedad View Post
how can someone other than yourself tell you if
you're ready to get a foundation dog? if you don't know
if you're ready for a foundation dog then you're
probably not ready. if i were going to breed i would
make sure i have the money to breed, the time and a
place to breed. i would also learn about the different
lines and have a purpose for putting 2 dogs together
to mate or than their GSD's.
I'm not even talking about breeding german shepherds, also I never asked if I was ready for a foundation female now. I asked about in general and in the future.
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