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Old 03-27-2012, 12:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Just wanted to add...I'm not saying your dog isn't breedworthy or that you are doing it wrong, just pointing out the questions I would have as a potential puppy buyer.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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How old is your GSD? And who are the people asking for him to be their stud? That would be my first clue as to how "studable" he is. Usually the bitch's owners are the ones that end up with the duty to sell the pups, so if they think your dog is breedworthy, depending on their integrity, I would like to hear more about your dog.

From your first post there are some bad signs. All dogs, even imported ones have paper, so why the dam of your dog doesn't have papers is questionable. If he has been OFA tested, you should have some sort of documentation on that. It's really weird that 2 people want to breed to your dog since he doesn't have papers...AKC registration or any registration is the first thing most regular buyers look for in order to see how good the breeder is. I'm also pretty sure that most sports require a registration number to compete in.

Start digging to figure out what your dog actually comes from. Just being from import parents doesn't mean anything, there are tons of dogs from import parents, and its not hard to import a dog yourself for about the same price as a puppy purchased in the United States.
I emailed the guy and he said both parents have papers, but he never got them for Zeus, so he is going to get the information to me. He said he never did the actual teasing, but took him to a breeder and had him evaluated. Both parents have a grade A in their testing. This was just emailed to me in the last 5 minutes. So I'm going to wait and get the paperwork on him before I look any further into it, that way I have the actual facts in front of me and I know what I'm looking at. Earlier when he told me he had him tested he didn't specify that he didn't do the actual health testing, but just an evaluation. I already have appointments set up with my vet for him so I will be taking him in very soon to get started on his health testing. Thanks for the advice! Oh and he is 18 months old.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I emailed the guy and he said both parents have papers, but he never got them for Zeus, so he is going to get the information to me. He said he never did the actual teasing, but took him to a breeder and had him evaluated. Both parents have a grade A in their testing. This was just emailed to me in the last 5 minutes. So I'm going to wait and get the paperwork on him before I look any further into it, that way I have the actual facts in front of me and I know what I'm looking at. Earlier when he told me he had him tested he didn't specify that he didn't do the actual health testing, but just an evaluation. I already have appointments set up with my vet for him so I will be taking him in very soon to get started on his health testing. Thanks for the advice! Oh and he is 18 months old.
Just so you know, dogs must be 24 months (or two years) to have the appropriate breeding health tests done on them through OFA and I believe CERF as well. So you can get started with registering him now, looking at lineage and pedigree, talking to your vet, etc. and then test him when he's old enough in amother 6 months.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It might be a very long process to get his papers at this point. Especially if his litter was never registered. Also, testing is only after 2 years old. Getting an evaluation isn't bad, but it doesn't mean much. You can find a big problem with an evaluation at an early age, but you're not going to find a moderate issue. Again, OFA won't give you an official grade until the dog is 24 months old, but they will do a preliminary which won't mean much to potential puppy owners.

It's really weird that you had 2 females lined up to stud to your dog that early. I'm not going to say that he's not a great dog, but he's really too young to know anything about him. He probably is almost filled out but not quite, and he's not titled in anything as of yet.

This isn't anything against you, but mostly against the potential bitch owners. If I was ever asked to stud my dog by someone that I really respected in the breeding community I wouldn't think twice about it (they know what they're doing), but if its just anyone, I wouldn't do it. Sorry to be blunt but it doesn't sound like they care that much about the breeding pair. There are a lot of males out there that are probably much more breed worthy than your dog (and your dog is probably more breed worthy than mine, so don't take offense to that), so just from what you've described I wouldn't trust any of those owners, to me it sounds like they wan't money (I know you don't) and want to tell their buyers that the sire is a trained drug dog.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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And there goes another!

So sad to see someone come here for advice and get run off, yet again.
you're right, when someone comes looking for advice to on breeding a fine working animal, and they have a dog that was washed from a working program because of NOT having what it takes to be one, we should ignore that fact right?

I didn't see anyone jumping all over anyone, but a **** good question is WHY? if a dog doesn't have what it takes to pass a working program, WHY?? do you think it has what it takes to pass along to the next generation of working dogs?

It's a question that should be asked first and foremost. If a few comments on that fact are enough to drive someone away all I can say is good. They don't have the temperament for it.

a breeder should be asking themselves much tougher questions than any thing asked or commented on here.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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OP... if you legitimately want to go about this the right way..

1. Post the dogs pedigree

2. Post the hip and elbow OFA scores and numbers (or SV score if from germany)

3. Post the pedigrees of the two dogs that you're considering breeding him with

There's a whole lot more to breeding a dog than just having "papers". There are so many AKC registered dogs who should never have been or be bred. Just having "papers" don't mean too much in this country.

If you want to do this the right way. Start by posting the stuff I mentioned from above and let the experts here analyze. Don't take this wrong, but without that stuff, no one is going to even begin to take you seriously.

Last edited by Lucy Dog; 03-27-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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you're right, when someone comes looking for advice to on breeding a fine working animal, and they have a dog that was washed from a working program because of NOT having what it takes to be one, we should ignore that fact right?

I didn't see anyone jumping all over anyone, but a **** good question is WHY? if a dog doesn't have what it takes to pass a working program, WHY?? do you think it has what it takes to pass along to the next generation of working dogs?

It's a question that should be asked first and foremost. If a few comments on that fact are enough to drive someone away all I can say is good. They don't have the temperament for it.

a breeder should be asking themselves much tougher questions than any thing asked or commented on here.
I am not trying to be judgemental or drive the OP off, I think I've asked legitimate questions. I'm sorry if the OP or others found that offensive, I just wanted to know WHY they think their dogs are worthy of breeding. I have the same convo with any of my students or clients who tell me they want to breed their dogs. As a professional, I do think I have the right to ask those questions as it can affect me in a professional manner. I see many dogs produced by unqualified breeders and unqualified owners. So it's just natural for me to try and stop any and all people who fit into these categories. In order to determine if you are one of those people, we have to ask questions. That is all my post was meant to do.

People are going to do what they want to do, and we can't stop that, but they shouldn't get offended if someone asks them hard questions. In my experience, when we ask these questions and the person gets offended, it's because they don't have the appropriate answers or even a clue about the answers.

If you are looking for answers, be prepared to answer some questions and not get offended by being asked questions. If your answers get you flamed, so be it. Be strong enough to defend your want to breed your dogs. I don't think anyone meant to offend the OP, especially me. This shouldn't be felt as a personal attack as that was not MY intention.

I've found that the best information and advice comes out because people have more information to work off of.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:14 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackem View Post
you're right, when someone comes looking for advice to on breeding a fine working animal, and they have a dog that was washed from a working program because of NOT having what it takes to be one, we should ignore that fact right?

I didn't see anyone jumping all over anyone, but a **** good question is WHY? if a dog doesn't have what it takes to pass a working program, WHY?? do you think it has what it takes to pass along to the next generation of working dogs?

It's a question that should be asked first and foremost. If a few comments on that fact are enough to drive someone away all I can say is good. They don't have the temperament for it.

a breeder should be asking themselves much tougher questions than any thing asked or commented on here.
And exactly what is the OP learning if he is met with hostility towards his intended breeding?
There are tactful ways to dissuade someone from breeding. People can be too judgmental, too fast. Some jumped on the "how dare you breed" bandwagon before all the facts were known. Even so much as questioning his motives ($$$).
He came here to get advice. If it turns out his dog isn't breed worthy, then so be it, but the most you can do is educate.
Seriously, is that too much to ask?
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I emailed the guy and he said both parents have papers, but he never got them for Zeus, so he is going to get the information to me. He said he never did the actual teasing, but took him to a breeder and had him evaluated. Both parents have a grade A in their testing. This was just emailed to me in the last 5 minutes. So I'm going to wait and get the paperwork on him before I look any further into it, that way I have the actual facts in front of me and I know what I'm looking at. Earlier when he told me he had him tested he didn't specify that he didn't do the actual health testing, but just an evaluation. I already have appointments set up with my vet for him so I will be taking him in very soon to get started on his health testing. Thanks for the advice! Oh and he is 18 months old.
Also, make sure you're investigating the females as closely as we're advising you to check your male. You want a brucellosis (doggie STD) test from both male and female partners. You want to make sure the females have good bloodlines and hip/elbow OFA certifications at a minimum. Unfortunately there are people out there who want to breed their females to anything that resembles the same breed so they can sell puppies and make money. It sounds like you're wanting to avoid that and do it right. In German Shepherds, the only way to get close to doing it right is with hip and elbow certifications at a minimum, along with good bloodlines that complement each other.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:53 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The reason people are asking questions is they want to help you make an informed decision. If the dog washed out of a K9 program, he is 18 mos, no health clearances, no papers – that is why people are questioning.

Why breed him?

People will always ask to breed to a dog. But, you as a stud dog owner, need to look at not only what you are breeding to, but your own dog that you are breeding.

For example: a dog that was bought for $500 and the breeder told the owners that the dog had genetic faults and was not for breeding. Nice working traits, but multiple genetics issues afflict the dog. Should he be used for stud and the foundation for a breeding program? There are just as nice dogs out there, with no genetic/reproducible faults.
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