Questions about breeding my dog with my son's dog

[sandy]

I am not a professional breeder but I love my Dogs and raised my kids surrounded by Dogs.

I have a GS Female dog I have bought from a breeder , she has her AKC paperwork and all nine yards,etc.

My son who was moved back home now, has a beautiful Male GS that he bought upstate , when he bought it

(He obviosuly loves dogs but doesnt know what paperwork is, neither did I, until now)

so when he bought it and ask for the paperwork, they gave him a medical record of the dog and told him that was the dog's "papers".

as the ad had said "papers". My son fell in love with the dog now the dog is 8 months old now.

If they were to breed with my female dog, How can I get AKC or legal trace papers for my son's dog?

I mean if the have puppies they would look beautiful, I will post pics soon of the dogs but seriously I read comments here and I maybe considered a BYB but I do care for the dogs like their are my children.

its not about the money or about the nonsense , but now after reading this I figured that mikes dog is a GSD , but doesnt have OFA or AKC or any other acronym you guys use, but female has...

is there a possibility for my male GSD?



Id be sad if they were to have puppies and I'd want to give them to good homes and some dude starts telling me that Im not a german board certified of the club and think I dont take care of them..I think its kind of obtuse but I understand anyones concern before buying a puppy.

It would be sad to see beautiful healthy puppies suffer just because their father didnt have actual papers.

any suggestions? thanks-

[selzer]

Sandy,

If you cannot keep the boy separated from the bitch when she is in heat, then have him neutered.

You cannot guarantee great homes for puppies. Nope, not even ones with all their Ps and Qs in order.

But when you have your dogs registered with the SV or AKC, that means that their blood line is guaranteed so many generations back and the dog is purebred so long as nobody deliberately falsified the papers. That is step 1. Without that, your dogs may as well be mongrels, you cannot prove they are purebred and their puppies cannot be registered.

Next, is OFA or penn hip, Yes, you want to know that the dogs you are breeding together do not have an inherited problem such as hip or elbow dysplasia. There are other things like thyroid and cardiac that you can test for as well. We do this to ensure our breeding stock is healthy and the puppies will have the odds in their favor to also be healthy.

But there is so much more than just putting dog and bitch together. I cannot go into it all right now. Read through the breeding section. Read about the bloodlines, genetics, training, trialing, conformation. Read through the health section, you will want to know if those dogs behind your were likely to produce puppies with DM, EPI, soft ears, and any number of other problems in the breed.

One of the biggest things is finding good owners. It is hard to screen people and then send home a vulnerable eight week old puppy with them and hope they will come through with their promises. Without papers and without health screenings and without training, titles, other accomplishments, and no knowledge of 1/2 of the pedigree, the best and most educated of buyers are completely closed to you.

Which means you will have to sell or give your dogs away to people who have little knowledge or little money, and most likely both. Will these dogs be left chained out in the back yard, will they be dropped at the pound when the people have to move?

The thing is, you have very little to make demands with. We who have dogs with titles and health clearances and papers will make a contract and ensure that the person pay a fee, and agree to certain conditions. They will answer our questions because if they do not, there is the the door.

You will not have that luxury.

Please neuter the dog. And if your really want to breed, check into your bitch's pedigree, train her, title her, do stuff with her, get her involved, test her for health, hip, elbows, etc., and then if she musters up, find a good stud for her and pay a stud fee, produce dogs with papers and some knowledge behind them.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by sandy

Id be sad if they were to have puppies and I'd want to give them to good homes and some dude starts telling me that Im not a german board certified of the club and think I dont take care of them..I think its kind of obtuse but I understand anyones concern before buying a puppy.

It would be sad to see beautiful healthy puppies suffer just because their father didnt have actual papers.

any suggestions? thanks-

What a great question! My suggestion is DO NOT BREED EITHER OF THESE DOGS!

Reason: cause there are already thousands of WONDERFUL GSD's exactly like yours in shelters and rescues as I type this. Many of these dogs will be dead in the next week or so because there are not enough homes in the USA for all the dogs in general, let alone these GSD's in specific.

So why add more to that population? Good GSDs.....that may end up in a shelter/rescue/dead by a needle.

Instead, why not just love your dog, love your son's dog, and NOT breed at all. Do you know the hip/elbow history going back generations on both dogs for all progeny? HOw about if they have allergy issues? Mega-esophagus? EPI? Or the other many many genetic problems that are KNOWN to be common in our breed ? German Shepherd Dog Health Problems

RESPONSIBLE breeders will educate themselves and KNOW the genetics going back on both sides. They will work to improve what they have and get rid of weaknesses in their lines. They will GIVE warranties and guarantees and (this is most important...

THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL PUPPIES BRED BY THEM FOREVER!

So these dogs/pups shouldn't end up in shelters or rescues cause the breeder will ALWAYS willingly take them back. They only SELL these same puppies with mostly limited registries (so new owners can't breed) because they only want the best of their dogs passing on their genetics. They also know there are TOO MANY DOGS out there...........

Not saying anyone can't work to become a responsible breeder over the years. But there should be much more to it than the 'I have a dog I love, you have a dog you love, let's get them together and have puppies!' This is only adding to the pet population death rate in the USA, not helping.

This is what most of us prefer to have in a breeder and a goal I would try to reach should I choose to breed:

Dog Play: Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder

Dog Owner's Guide: Should you breed your dog?

What is a Breeder

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by sandy

If they were to breed with my female dog, How can I get AKC or legal trace papers for my son's dog?

You can't. In order to register a litter with the AKC, both parents have to be registered. So not only would your puppies not be registered, one or both parents of your son's dog may not be either, and without AKC registration you can't prove that the puppies are purebred.

Beautiful puppies is not a good reason for breeding your dog. And yes, you would be a BYB, which does not mean you don't love your dogs nor does it imply that you don't take good care of them. It simply means that you're throwing two dogs together willy nilly (one unregistered, and without registration there's no proof he's even a purebred GSD) with no thought to whether or not this is a good match to maintain or improve the breed, simply to produce pretty puppies, and maybe make a buck or two off them.

Originally Posted by sandy

Id be sad if they were to have puppies and I'd want to give them to good homes and some dude starts telling me that Im not a german board certified of the club and think I dont take care of them..I think its kind of obtuse but I understand anyones concern before buying a puppy.

It would be sad to see beautiful healthy puppies suffer just because their father didnt have actual papers.

If you don't want the puppies to suffer, then don't have any. Your dogs are not just going to "have puppies" if you make sure that they don't by spaying and neutering them or keeping them separate while she's in heat.

[Castlemaid]

Sandy,

Sue gave you some very good advice, and all have given you lots to think about. Being a BYB doesn't mean that you don't love your dogs and take excellent care of them, because many BYB's do. Being a BYB is someone like yourself who wants to breed without the in-depth knowledge of lines, lineage, and health, and often, dogs without papers and health testing.

Your dog and your son's dog are lucky to have people that love them as much as you do. But don't we all love our dogs just as much? What I see is that your decision to breed your bitch and your son's dog is purely an emotional one. That you love your dog is a given, but if you love the breed, if you have respect for the breed, then you need to take a step back and look at things objectively, not personally, and see that breeding is not doing the breed a favor.

If you are on this board, asking for information and advice, then that shows that you want to be responsible and do the right thing. So my advice is the same as the rest: please don't breed your bitch, ever. And please don't breed your son's dog. Ever.

[LaRen616]

I agree with what everyone said. If you breed them the puppies will not be able to be Akc registered. You have to do health tests and get their hips checked out. We already have too many unhealthy GSD's in the world due to irresponsible breeding, please do not contribute to it.

[Liesje]

Sandy, the issue here is not the dog's papers, but that you'd be breeding just based on having "papers". Papers make no difference. Your dogs need to prove they are breedworthy with the appropriate health certifications (the puppy one from a vet is not what I'm talking about), training, trials, and titles. You said your dog has "the whole nine yards". What does that mean? She has her hip and elbow ratings, training, titles? If so then why breed her to your son's dog?

Personally, I run not walk from a breeder that tries to sell puppies just on "papers" (and doesn't understand the silliness) or tries to sell puppies simply because they are already born and now I'm a terrible person for not buying one and it looks like you are trying to use both of these strategies. I don't want a breeder that treats their dogs like children, I want a breeder that treats their dogs like German Shepherd dogs and works and titles them accordingly.

[Courtney]

Sandy,

All of the above is the best advice you will ever hear on this topic.

I also don't think you will get ONE person here tell you to breed your dog, which I think you knew as you mentioned reading other topics on this board. That does not mean your dog is not a good family dog/companion-just that breeding her is an awful idea.

If you seriously want to become a breeder find a reputable breeder that can mentor you.

[Emoore]

Also think about if you're willing to put your bitch's health and possibly life at risk for the purpose of breeding. Any breeder can tell you horror stories of bitches being injured or even dying from delivering. My husbands parents did pretty much the same thing you're thinking of doing and the bitch ended up eating one of the puppies and refusing to nurse the rest so they had to be bottle-fed every hour. There were 13 so that's pretty much around the clock. Another pup became ill and died a few days after birth.

[Whitedog404]

Please don't consider breeding for all of the very good reasons offered. And a million more.