does every dog owner have the right to breed? discussion

[Liesje]

In short, yes, I believe ever dog owner has the right to breed.

I do not see mandatory microchipping really making a dent in shelter population. At least in my area shelters, lost pets that are not recovered after a 10 day quarantine make up a marginal percentage of the animals. Most of them were simply unwanted by their owners and dumped, for whatever reason. Many already spayed/neutered. Also, I firmly believe that some dogs will have a better chance if they end up in the shelter. The last two dogs I have taken in as strays both suffered neglect at the hands of their "owners" and deserved good quality vet care offered by the shelter and to be adopted to new homes properly screened by the shelter.

[sagelfn]

Originally Posted by Liesje

In short, yes, I believe ever dog owner has the right to breed.

I do not see mandatory microchipping really making a dent in shelter population. At least in my area shelters, lost pets that are not recovered after a 10 day quarantine make up a marginal percentage of the animals. Most of them were simply unwanted by their owners and dumped, for whatever reason. Many already spayed/neutered. Also, I firmly believe that some dogs will have a better chance if they end up in the shelter. The last two dogs I have taken in as strays both suffered neglect at the hands of their "owners" and deserved good quality vet care offered by the shelter and to be adopted to new homes properly screened by the shelter.

I don't think it would cut down on the number that go into shelters either but it would give a way to hold people responsible for their animals..i'm talking about the abused neglected animals where there is no way to prove ownership.

[Liesje]

But people have the right to sign over their animals to the shelter and the right not to re-claim them. I'm not advocating doing so, but I've seen animals in such terrible shape I never would want the owners to be forced to take them back.

[AgileGSD]

Originally Posted by sagelfn

I don't think it would cut down on the number that go into shelters either but it would give a way to hold people responsible for their animals..i'm talking about the abused neglected animals where there is no way to prove ownership.

How would you prove neglect was due to the owner? If a dog has been lost and out on his own for more than a few days, he may start to look "neglected". Would you see fit to charge an owner with abuse because their dog was lost?

IME most shelters have extremely little interest in reuniting dogs with their owners, even dogs with permanent ID. If the owner isn't there constantly asking about if their dog was found, their dog will likely be adopted out or killed just like any other dog. When I questioned a forum of rescue/shelter workers why so many shelters didn't even bother scanning for microchips, lots of them replied that "it just complicates things too much". I learned that many shelters don't scan for chips on the majority of pets because they don't want to have the "hassle" of trying to track down the owner and then have to hold the animal for an extended period of time. A shelter director here told me they only scan dogs which "look purebred" or "look like a dog someone called about being lost recently".

Shelters need to stop blaming breeders and the public for being "forced to kill healthy dogs" and start pursuing what they can do differently. There are still plenty of county pounds out there which don't even make an attempt at placing dogs, they give "strays" 3 days to find a home (and do nothing at all to promote adoption) and owner turn ins may not even get that long. Then there are shelters which do promote adoptions but turn down anyone who doesn't fit their vision of a perfect dog owner. Want to adopt a neutered dog from your shelter but have an intact dog in your home? Chances are fair that the shelter would rather kill that dog than let you take him. Same goes for not having or not having a fenced yard, having or not having a dog door, not having someone home all day, having children and on and on and on. Are dogs at such shelters really being killed for lack of homes? Or are they being killed due to shelter policies?

This is a good, short read on the subject: Debunking Pet Overpopulation : Nathan J Winograd

[Dainerra]

I agree with a lot of the things you mentioned. Our county Animal Control doesn't even OWN a scanner. The local humane society does, but since going "no kill" they rarely take in strays and have a huge waiting list for accepting owner turn-ins. Even before, they only scanned dogs if you called to say "my dog is lost. He is a GSD and is microchipped." Then they would scan dogs that fit that description. Unless (and this is from a shelter employee) intake was done by someone that didn't see the notice about your dog. Then the dog wouldn't be scanned later because everyone would assume it was done when he was brought in, thereby your dog slipping through the cracks. She told me this because she wanted to stress how important it was to ALWAYS follow-up daily when your dog is missing and not to rely on a microchip/tags to get him home.

Even though a simple phone call can trace a rabies tag, no one does that either. It's "too much hassle" I know because I always ask when I move to a new area with my dogs. I like to know policies "just in case" It's very sad how little effort is made to ID lost dogs, even when it would only take a phone call.

Vet clinics in the area say that "sometimes" they will scan a dog if it's brought in by someone not the owner - IE you hit a stray dog with your car and take it to the vet. But, they said that is a very rare happening. Most people either just drive on, or if they do stop and call to report an injured dog, the Sheriff's Office sends someone out to shoot it. Few people want to accept financial responsibility for taking a stray dog to the vet.

[selzer]

I asked my vet and he said that he will scan only if he has a flyer for a lost dog that resembles the dog.

I expect it is not good for business if the first thing you do is scan the dog to see if it is a missing/stolen dog.

[Jessiewessie99]

Originally Posted by AgileGSD

How would you prove neglect was due to the owner? If a dog has been lost and out on his own for more than a few days, he may start to look "neglected". Would you see fit to charge an owner with abuse because their dog was lost?

IME most shelters have extremely little interest in reuniting dogs with their owners, even dogs with permanent ID. If the owner isn't there constantly asking about if their dog was found, their dog will likely be adopted out or killed just like any other dog. When I questioned a forum of rescue/shelter workers why so many shelters didn't even bother scanning for microchips, lots of them replied that "it just complicates things too much". I learned that many shelters don't scan for chips on the majority of pets because they don't want to have the "hassle" of trying to track down the owner and then have to hold the animal for an extended period of time. A shelter director here told me they only scan dogs which "look purebred" or "look like a dog someone called about being lost recently".

Shelters need to stop blaming breeders and the public for being "forced to kill healthy dogs" and start pursuing what they can do differently. There are still plenty of county pounds out there which don't even make an attempt at placing dogs, they give "strays" 3 days to find a home (and do nothing at all to promote adoption) and owner turn ins may not even get that long. Then there are shelters which do promote adoptions but turn down anyone who doesn't fit their vision of a perfect dog owner. Want to adopt a neutered dog from your shelter but have an intact dog in your home? Chances are fair that the shelter would rather kill that dog than let you take him. Same goes for not having or not having a fenced yard, having or not having a dog door, not having someone home all day, having children and on and on and on. Are dogs at such shelters really being killed for lack of homes? Or are they being killed due to shelter policies?

This is a good, short read on the subject: Debunking Pet Overpopulation : Nathan J Winograd

Have you heard of the SPCA? Please do learn about them, if you haven't.

I hate it how alot of people(anywhere:here and in general) think most shelters are the same. I am not pointing any fingers. But the shelter I volunteer at is NOT like most shelters that have euthanize their dogs, or don't care for the owner.My shelter does put animals to sleep, but only if necessary. My shelter has a 93% adoption rate. Scans the dog to see if they have a microchip, if the dog doesn't, then they microchip it. The dogs and cats are al given a full vet examination, and given vaccinations(they have vets who work at the shelter everyday). If a dog is brought in and ahs a microchip or tag, they give the owner 10 days to come get the dog, if not the dog is assessed for any medical issues, and behavorial issues and then is put up for adoption. If the owner does come to get the dog long after 10 days, they would have to adopt their dog, but I think my shelter checks out the owner before they give the dog back.

In fact for any potnetial adoptors my shelter gives them a questionaire, contract stating they won't do certain things like tail docking, ear cropping, taking the dogs voice box out, or declawing the cats. Basically and adoption process to show the people will be responsible owners. And all dogs and cats brought are spayed/neutered if not already. The shelter I volunteer at cares about both humans and animals, and tries its best to better the relationship between animals and humans through programs, summer camps, humane education, letting kids and adults volunteer together, activities for animals and humans( In May of this year they will Mark & Brian of KLOS come to the shelter and do a radio show). Oh and the shelter I volunteer at has every right to refuse to let people adopt a dog. Sometimes you need to see why shelters do that.

I just don't like it when people degrade shelters or talk bad about them.And make them seem like a bad guy. I know there are some bad shelters out there. But as a shelter volunteer shelter it hurts me.Thats all I am trying to say.

FYI: I am against PETA and all it does. Sadly there is a girl in my Public Speaking class who actually supports them. I wanted to tell her how bad they were. But I didn't want to start anything.

And AgileGSD, I think you need to learn more about shelters and their policies.

[onyx'girl]

Jessiewessie,
Shelters and rescues are two different things, An "SPCA" is along the lines of a rescue, a shelter IMO is more of an animal control facility. Huge difference. AgileGSD is writing of more AC, than rescue...where overcrowding results in euth before the animals have a chance to find new homes.
SPCAs are different in every community, some try to prevent abuse or will be the animal police, the one in my community is a rescue only, has nothing to do with policing neglected or abused animals. They pull animals from AC's, some owner surrenders and rehome for profit.
Sorry to go off topic on this thread, but wanted to clarify the different ways shelters/rescues work.

[Dainerra]

Even under the SPCA name, I think your shelter is the exception that proves the rule. The vast majority of shelters in America are underfunded, understaffed and WAY overworked. Their job in a lot of cases is simply to warehouse animals. They don't seek adopters (though with the internet this is getting easier for ever rural shelters!). They don't have (or take) the time to actively seek owners of stray dogs. I am disheartened by how many don't do this even when the means to do so are right at their finger tips - tags and microchips.

The things listed in the article that Agile posted are true for the vast majority of the country. I know that they are here. Even though AC and the local Humane Society have adoption days and list dogs in the paper for adoption, have pictures posted of them in Wal-Mart, one of them doesn't even OWN a scanner. And it's the one responsible for picking up ALL stray dogs. Our Humane Society has gone "no-kill" and just doesn't have any more space. They have a long waiting list for people wanting to dump their dogs; those who don't want to wait just take them along a back road and turn them loose. They will bend over backwards to try to help, but only scan lost dogs if there is a notice matching that description.

Both will call if there is a name/address tag. but not if the only ID is a rabies tag - even though all you have to do is call the clinic listed on the tag and give them the ID #, they "don't have time" to look up the phone number.


Selzer, my vet doesn't check "owned" dogs that come in unless it's a new patient with a dog matching a description of one they have a notice about. I was talking about injured strays that were brought in. Very rare occurrence, but it does happen on occasion.

[onyx'girl]

Where I live, we are fortunate to not have many puppy mills, and there are several rescues that work together. The SPCA here will go to several states and pull dogs/cats to help eleviate their overcrowdedness-they even took a number of stray dogs from Mexico a couple years ago. Fosters are abundant so the dogs aren't living at the kennel, and adoption events are held at every petstore every weekend. There are no stores that sell cats/dogs either. I wish all communities were so lucky.
It seems the problem here is purebred dogs coming up missing, never to be seen again...