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-   -   Von, vom and naming your kennel. (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/thinking-about-becoming-breeder/126764-von-vom-naming-your-kennel.html)

Wolfen 01-01-2010 02:03 PM

Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
I am a little confused about the use of "vom" and "von" in registered names of dogs. I was under the impression that "vom" means of and "von" means the, the first in relation to a specific kennel or bloodline. I think I am wrong about the meaning of von. Can someone please explain the two terms for me? It's greatly appreciated!

Also, when it comes to choosing a name for a working-line kennel, is it smart to go strictly German or is it okay to go with something English? I see some strictly German names and some kennels that use a format such as: Dogname vom Summerview.

Opinions? Thoughts? Experiences?

Thank you!

Amaruq 01-01-2010 02:09 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
I am NOT a linguist but the way I understand it, vom and von both mean of/the depending on the noun that it preceeds. One is masculine and the other feminine.

Wolfen 01-01-2010 02:34 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted By: AmaruqI am NOT a linguist but the way I understand it, vom and von both mean of/the depending on the noun that it preceeds. One is masculine and the other feminine.
I see males and females using vom, so I don't think it's gender-specific.

SunCzarina 01-01-2010 02:40 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
I think in dog naming conventions, the name is gender specific to the owner of the kennel (breeder), not the gender of the dog. Confuses me too. If it helps, Otto's registered name is Otto von Hena-C. His breeder is a woman who's maiden name is Hennessy.

MaggieRoseLee 01-01-2010 02:46 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
Info on these sites may help:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ead/60725.html

It does sound like there is a male/female thing but possibly we in the USA (gasp http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...%%/29_1_20.gif ) have been confusing the 2, from the following:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=390924

W.Oliver 01-01-2010 02:48 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
I am sitting next to my German Au Pair, (who had never been exposed to SchH until coming to America 15 months ago), and while it is true "von" is associative of the feminine, it is more correct to think of it as previously posted, von = of and vom = from....either working for dog naming convention.

Amaruq 01-01-2010 03:16 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted By: Wolfen
Quote:

Originally Posted By: AmaruqI am NOT a linguist but the way I understand it, vom and von both mean of/the depending on the noun that it preceeds. One is masculine and the other feminine.
I see males and females using vom, so I don't think it's gender-specific.
It has nothing to do with male or female DOGS it is the gender of the kennel name.

SunCzarina 01-01-2010 03:18 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
Based on what Wayne02's au pair said, I wonder why a breeder would pick one over the other.

Castlemaid 01-01-2010 03:19 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
And I am not German, nor do I speak German, but German nouns, even object nouns, all have a gender: masculine, feminine, or neutral. As in French, all object nouns are either masculine or feminine, and the article used in front has to agree with the noun that follows. English nouns are all neutral, and the designating article is also.

For example, in English, you would say "The table", and "the truck", and neither table nor truck have a gender - they just are.

In French, table is feminine and you would use the feminine spelling of "the" and truck if masculine, so you would use the masculine version of "the".

For example, the table and the truck in French becomes:

"Une table (feminine), and Un camion (masculine).

So not sure exactly the difference between 'vom' and 'von', but as Wayne mentioned, there is both a gender rule, and a possessive/relationship rule to the word that it precedes, and the word/kennel name in and of itself would possess gender independent of the gender of the dog, or the gender of the breeder.

There are board members who are fluent in German . . . if lucky, we may get a real good explanation - my explanation was just to highlight the concept of common nouns having gender, a strange concept to native English speakers.

Liesje 01-01-2010 06:41 PM

Re: Von, vom and naming your kennel.
 
In general they are used the same, the difference only has to do with the gender of the kennel name, not the dog. It's actually the gender of the noun in the prepositional phrase, which in this case is the kennel name or surname of the breeder.

"Von" is not the; the is "die", "der", or "das" (and "den" or "dem" depending on the use in prepositional phrases).

It's been a while, but technically the preposition is "von" meaning from, by, or of. It is a dative preposition so it becomes "vom" when the noun is masculine or neuter. Basically it's a shortening of "von dem". If the noun is feminine, it's "von den" which both have the "n". Hence "von" or "vom".

Quote:

Quote:Based on what Wayne02's au pair said, I wonder why a breeder would pick one over the other.
You cannot really pick unless you don't care that you might pick wrong. However the German language has far less words than many other language and obviously will not include all surnames used in kennel names. In these cases....I'm not really sure how to correctly describe it since I'm not a linguist but the correct one just feels correct.


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