Von, vom and naming your kennel. - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 10-18-2012, 11:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
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There's more to it than just deciding. Von/vom is based on the gender of the noun in the prepositional phrase and if the noun has no assigned gender (because it's not a word in the German alphabet) a native speaker can probably tell you that one just sounds better given the flow of the language. The noun genders are not arbitrarily assigned. Even having only studied the language for four years using von/vom is fairly natural without knowing every possibly noun in the vocabulary and memorizing the gender.

Von and Vom are the same thing. Usually in the context of the prepositional phrase, of or from can be used interchangeably. It's not that one means of and one means from. Even in English you can often use them interchangeably.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Naming our puppy

We're trying to come up with a full name for our puppy's AKC registration. My understanding is that the name can contain pretty much anything? Would someone who speaks fluent German give me an opinion on whether or not this is written correctly?
"Blitzen der Kuhne Vom Haus Giuglia"

'Giuglia' is a modification of our last name..unsure whether or not to use that quite yet. Our other option is using the kennel name from the the Sire+Dam. Is that more common to use? Or do we just pick a word we like and use its translation??

Thanks for any and all opinions!
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:18 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Because our dogs weren't bred in Germany, even though their lineage is traceable directly to Germany, we opted to not offer "German" names to our pups, from the kennel standpoint.
Our pups are "Penley's blah, blah, blah."
"Penley" being our farm, which is a combination of our last name (my married name) and my grandfather's last name, who owned and started the farm we run now, and then the owners get to pick the rest of the name. They've been very creative, to say the least.
For example, Penley's Premiere Zee, Penley's Silver Lining and Penley's Gold Plated Impression. And then we did have one pup get named a combination; his name is something like Penley's Mack von whatever.
Of course those are their registered names, and they each have their regular call name. Some are a part of the registered name, some are completely different.

I know it's customary for GSD's to be given German names, but we figured our dogs are American bred, and so, to us, it just made more sense to give them an American name. Of course, looking back through their pedigree's, you'll find German name, after German name, all referring to either a kennel or foundation dog. It's pretty interesting when you start breaking it down and researching it.

Last edited by mehpenn; 09-10-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:19 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Now I have a question here.... I have a breeder in mind for when I'm ready for a pup. They give their dogs call names, and their parents are AKC registered, but are not "German" registered with von OR vom.

One day down the road when life has smoothed out and I know I can do it properly, I would like to breed a litter of pups. I don't want to get into an argument about breeding more dogs when so many die in shelters...I know what characteristics I'd like to breed in a litter, and if I don't find the right dogs, I will simply have mine spayed/neutered.

But... is there anything that says I have to be a breeder, or use the breeder's name when naming my dog?

Let's say the breeder's name is Smith. And the dog is Fido. Would the dog "have" to be registered with von/vom Smith as its name, or could I name it whatever I want? Does the "kennel" have to be a breeding kennel to name the dog with von/vom? If I wanted to name the dog after my and my hubby's name (we'll say Smith, also, I guess)... could the dog be named Fido von Smith? or could I name it Fido von Whatever-I-Want ?

Just to clarify... do I have to own a sire/dam to use von/vom?
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:15 AM   #35 (permalink)
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If your breeder does not name the pups first and register them and does not require using a specified kennel name in the contract you can name your puppy what ever you want. Is that what you are asking?
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:50 AM   #36 (permalink)
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First...I apologize for how haughty that post came out. I was overtired and trying to think, and had just run a couple ambulance calls back to back. >.>

Lisa, that is exactly what I was asking. I know I can name the pup anything...but to give the pup a kennel name, do I have to have an actual breeding kennel? Or can I call the pup vom/von Anything without owning a sire/dam and actual breeding kennel? Is there any "rule" about that? (You know... the pup naming police or something? hehe)
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #37 (permalink)
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There are no actual rules enforced by law, but there are naming conventions.

You can buy sire and dam from different kennels, and they come with their von/vom kennel name, as registered by the previous owner. There are AKC/North American naming conventions, and German SV naming convention, and they are somewhat different in how the kennel names are built and what is considered appropriate naming of registered dogs. In AKC naming conventions, it is considered appropriate to include part of the names of the parents and/or the names of the kennels the parents came from, and/or your components of your own name and/or the name of the previous owners.

In the German naming convention, you will need to come up with your own unique kennel name, that may or may not have von/vom in it, and it is considered very bad form to use the kennel name of another breeder when naming your pups. I know this is all very confusing, so I'll give you some examples. I'll do it in two parts so that the posts don't get too long.

German naming convention:

In the German naming convention you buy female from kennel von Drooly, named Limpy von Drooly (as the owners of the Drooly kennel bred the female and registered her in their own kennel name), and you buy a male from another kennel. Lets say the other kennel is called Bitey Kennels . The owners of Bitey kennel bred the male you bought, and they have already registered the male in their own kennel name as Squinty vom Bitey.

If you are following the German naming convention, you will have to come up with a unique kennel name, and use your own unique kennel name when registering the pups YOU bred (regardless of where the parents came from). So lets say your kennel is called Barksalot Kennels. Your first litter will be the "A" litter, and all the pups will be registered with a name that starts with "A". You can come up with puppy names yourself and register them, or your puppy buyers can pick an "A" name that they like and suggest it for their puppy. So you can have Achy von Barksalot, Action von Barksalot, Andy von Barksalot, and so on. You CAN name your kennel after yourself, and call it Smith kennels, and register the dogs as Achy von Smith, Action von Smith, and so on.

The second litter you would breed at Barksalot/Smith kennels would be the B litter, the third the C litter and so on. It doesn't matter if the A, B, and C litters all have different parents acquired from different kennels, the main thing is that you own the females and bred them and registered them in your kennel name because that is where the puppies come from - your kennel. This way when people see a registered name published somewhere - OFA results, IPO results, Agility Trial results, they know which kennel the dog came from and from what litter.

For example Gryffon came from the G litter from Wildhaus kennels. His Dam is Denali vom Wildhaus, from the Wildhaus D litter that was help back for breeding. The alphabet naming convention continues on from litters bred BY THE KENNEL - not by the female used. So the Dam is from the fourth litter bred by Wildhaus. When Della (Denali) had her first litter, it was the 7th litter bred by Wildhaus, and thus the G litter. The breeder chose the puppy names and registered the litter. Owners of future pups are of course free to use any call name they wish, it does not have to be the registered name. I like Gryffon and kept it. Another member on the board here, Onyx'girl has a littermate of Gryffon, with the registered name of Gideon vom Wildhaus, but she chose the call name of Karlo for her dog, and that is what we all know him by.

There are no hard rules with AKC about using von/vom as a registered name. However, if using the German von/vom naming convention, it is considered very bad form in the GSD world to "steal" a kennel name, i.e. use the kennel name of an existing kennel as part of your kennel name.

Some people do it innocently enough because they don't understand the German convention, and some people do it on purpose, wanting to take advantage of prestige associated by well-established, well known kennel. So for example, you may see a pedigree with a dog with a kennel name of Truehaus (an actual kennel). You may just love the name and decide to use it when you register your pups - since there are no laws and regulations on that, you can. You could register a puppy as Honesty vom Truehaus (because you think this would be a cool name) , and, AKC would accept it, but people knowledgeable in the breed would look at the pedigree, and know that Honesty is NOT a puppy from the Truehaus H litter, and would consider it 'stealing' a kennel name.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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AKC style naming conventions.

With AKC style naming convention, there is a lot more variation in how breeders and puppy owners choose registered names. I'm more familiar with the German SV style, so maybe others can fill in more details that I might have missed.

In AKC/CKC (Canadian) naming conventions, different breeders have different 'themes' they like to see in coming up with registered names for the puppies they have bred. I think the conventions are also different in different breeds - but some breeders will want their kennel name worked into the pups' name somehow, or part of the names of the dam and sire.

Litters do not normally follow the Alphabet like in the German Convention, but they often follow a naming theme - the theme could be something like race cars, or Christmas, or Pagan Magic, for example. The the breeder may want their own name worked in, and/or the name or kennel name of the dam and sire, for example - that is on reason you see such loooooong AKC style names.

Some breeders will have some specific requirements on puppy naming, some will have only one request (keep to the litter theme), and others will make suggestions but allow the new owner to pick any registered name they want.

I can never come up with good AKC style names, LOL - just don't seem to be creative enough! But for example, let's say that the Breeder is Smith, who owns ThunderBolt kennels, just bred Midnight Lightning Bella to Winter Thunderstorm Dan for a new litter, and they decide to make it Sport Car Themed litter - than the registered name could be something like:

Castlemaid's Midnight Thunderstorm Maserati Smith III (which I think turned out to be a pretty cool name!).

German SV naming conventions are pretty cut and dry - AKC style naming conventions are many and varied - some people work a von/vom name into an AKC style name, but I don't really get the point of combining the two conventions - just causes confusion when the whole idea of a naming convention is to have some kind of system that gives you some info in where the dog came from.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdock87 View Post

I know I can name the pup anything...but to give the pup a kennel name, do I have to have an actual breeding kennel? Or can I call the pup vom/von Anything without owning a sire/dam and actual breeding kennel? Is there any "rule" about that? (You know... the pup naming police or something? hehe)
Short answer: yes, you can name your pup anything - but it would be considered inappropriate in the GSD world for you to come up with a von/vom name and register a pup that was bred by someone else in a von/vom kennel name of your own. You did not breed the pup, so it should NOT have YOUR kennel name, if you are following the German naming conventions.

When you BREED your first litter, then the pups can be registered with your own von/vom kennel name.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:23 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Wow... that's a lot of information to take in! I truly appreciate all of it. The pup I get will have registration papers (I think CKC), but I think I'm given the "right" to name the pup anything I want. I'll have to double check with the breeder once I get the pup.

The last litter she had were all cars - Ford, Chevy, etc. I thought it was cute, though if I ever breed a litter, I think I would like to follow the German convention, and start with an "A" litter. I'll have to discuss all of that with hubby, but for now... I'm just waiting on my pup.
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