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Old 10-07-2009, 10:58 AM   #31 (permalink)
mnm
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

I would add to the list, Lee Hough - Wolfstram on this board.

Another thing to take into consideration....most reputable breeders here in the states will only sell their puppies and young dogs on a limited registration, with that being lifted to a full registration after the dog has been proven breedworthy - titles and health clearances.

We started out with a young show line male five and a half years ago and high visions of him being a stud...turned out, after I learned more and more and worked with him, I knew he wasn't the dog I would choose to breed to if I was going to be breeding a female, and I had him neutered. I still train him, still hoping to get that SchH1 title but he's also my buddy. I decided on a working line female for my next dog and she's been everything that I wanted. I took her from an imported 8 week old puppy (through a very trusted broker and with help of a experienced and now very close friend) and trained and titled her. She had her 1st litter last spring and one pup was placed with a world level competitor (he's competing at the WUSV this week).

So, my best advice for you is to find a good young female or puppy, and start with them. Maybe they turn out super and will be your foundation female, or maybe they end up being your personal companion and friend, but you will learn so much more going through the process and more people will respect you for that, than if you just get a dog and start breeding.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:11 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Another thought, based on Marsha post.

The more you are involved with the breed BEFORE to start breeding, the best owners the pups born from your breeding will get. If you are too new to the whole dog world you'll have to place an ad in the newspaper to look for owners for your pups. If you and your dogs are respected in the dog circles people will ask for matings and pups even before they are born.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:42 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

I have to agree with that! I got into the breed about 8 years ago, always wanted to breed but the more I learned the more I realized I needed to know MORE!
I have spent the time since I got my first dog learning everything I can about temperament, bloodlines, pedigrees, structure, etc...spent countless hours working many dogs and watching others work. It took me a long time to find a dog that was truly outstanding in every way, and I hope to breed my first litter sometime in the next year. I am so happy that I have taken the time to do things right by taking the time to learn, I wouldn't want it any other way.

I guess my best advice would be to take your time and don't have your heart set on breeding your first dog. A lot of dogs will not work out, and it may take time to get the one that's truly breedworthy...there is a lot more to breeding than a Schh title.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Oops. should have said that Elsa's pup went to a National Level competitor...a younger 1/2 sister to Elsa is with the world level competitor.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:44 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Well, I'm 60, and on the other side of having been a hobby breeder. Now just have my pets. And the best advice I could give you is to purchase from an established known breeder the best quality young adult female of excellent pedigree that you can. Whether it's here in the US, or if you can make the connections in Europe to find a trustworthy breeder or supplier that is fine also. Making those connections generally take many years of actually being IN the breed as in competing and training at least on a club level.

Because even now I do not have personal connections I could trust in Europe (note I'm saying Europe, not just Germany as a number of countries over there are producing high quality dogs) I would probably choose a female here in the US. Probably one that a breeder had retained from a litter, then decided to part with as the dog matured and they could more fully access the quality and value of the dog.

I started out "Bass akwards" (as my Mama always said) with a Male I thought the world of. I started writing to other breeders to see if they'd be interested in breeding to him. I was quite fortunate to get a polite but very candid letter back from one lady who told me "You'll find that males, even nice males are a dime a dozen and that nobody's going to be interested in your male unless he's competing on a high level or already producing puppies who are doing the same." She went on to give me the same advice Chris gave you... If breeding is your goal, start with a proven female, the very best you can find... and then breed up.

Marsha mentioned Lee Hough, who is expecting a litter from her bitch Basha. Several pups from Basha are already titled both here and in Europe... and this is a repeat of a very nice breeding. But starting with a puppy with the goal of breeding is chancy as you never know if they'll turn out of a quality to be worthy of breeding.

There's several people on the site whose view on current lines and dogs who may be available to purchase. (Chris and Lee among them)
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:53 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Oh, forgot 3 things (and too late to edit my post)

#1... if the person says they can tell ya everything about Shepherds... they almost certainly can't!

#2... see WRITTEN PROOF of any claims regarding titles and tests on the bitch you consider before $1 changes hands.

#3... discuss what you're told with other Shepherd folk to get a feel about the person's history. (take it with a large grain of salt, but listen anyhow)
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:13 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

The key to any program is FEMALES not males - as Jill and others are saying - tons of people contact me and offer to "let" me use their males - titled males, backyard males etc.....I try to nicely inform them that males are everywhere - heck, I HAVE a Schh3 WH OB3 KKL CD male sitting at home that I don't use for MANY reasons.....I would have used him only on one female I had but did not happen......

I have contacts in Europe - got screwed once and got unbelievably gifted once with Basha - dam of Marsha's Elsa - she had one litter nursing when I bought her - 2 National level dogs in Belgium from Q haus Shiho - had a litter there for me, then 3 here - titled and soon to be titled dogs from every litter - there are 2 H's who look super.....as someone suggested - look for someone with a female who is started - I sold my young female to a guy who is in Germany competing in the WUSV right now - because he can do more with her than I ever could.....and eventually I will get a daughter of hers to continue my lines with as well.........but you have to KNOW what you want temperament wise, pedigree wise and have someone who will find that dog for you........I looked for a good female for nearly 2 years before getting Basha.....and she was only available from her owner for a few minutes before being sold LOL.

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Old 10-08-2009, 01:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Another possible option is to find an experienced, successful breeder who is willing to mentor. If you have access to a good training club and are willing to put in the time, you may find a breeder who will consider a co-ownership of a young female--you train/title her and learn a lot in the process--if/when the time is right, the breeder assists you in choosing a male for a breeding, gets you through the pregnancy/whelping, assists in placing the pups and you share in the proceeds (not a lot after the vet bills, food, supplements, etc.). However, the knowledge you would gain would be priceless and you could avoid a few of the pitfalls and setbacks that otherwise come only with the school of hard knocks.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:42 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

I was able to have an excellent conversation with the breeder of Rosso (WUSV vice 2006 and WUSV 2007) this past weekend. She, as well as Pierre (handler and trainer before - one of the top ones) stress the importance of raising, training and competing with the dog. How else can you fully understand what you are producing in your focus on breeding? The breeder does focus on the females as well, to breed trained and titled females from your own breeding program is what it should all be about.

It takes time effort and focus, but it is the goal.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:19 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Tim WildWhat hasn't been mentioned except in passing is that the kind of stud dog the OP is talking about is worth a lot, like thousands. Not worth thousands but you can have it for three low payments of $19.95, but actually worth a lot of money. Like mortgage the house and sell the kids into slavery kind of money.
but true.
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