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Old 09-29-2009, 03:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

My advice again, start with a female.

Forget the male. Easier, cheaper, and in most cases better breeding to select the ideal match from the many studs available, once you have a better idea of what sort of dog will be a good match for her, than to get a male yourself. And again, there is no way for you to ensure that any male or female you were to purchase would be good mates for each other, no matter how great they may be themselves.

Take that female and work her, live with her, get to know her. Let others with more experience get to know her a bit and give their opinion. As you work her, keep your eyes open to other dogs you encounter as this will help you learn more about what traits you value and don't like and what makes a good working dog. All of this is much better learned first hand, through experience.

During this time study pedigrees and bloodlines, and find a mentor in breeding who can help you learn about the ins and outs of breeding. As you work her, you will glean an understanding of how she measures up and be able to determine if she is worthy of breeding and represents the sort of dog you want to breed. You'll also become familiar with her strengths and weaknesses, then when she is ready and you are ready, find the best stud you can, one with a complimentary pedigree and characteristics, and who will help enhance her strengths and compensate for her weaknesses, and likewise she will do the same.

Do those things, and you'll be well on your way to becoming a great breeder.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

What hasn't been mentioned except in passing is that the kind of stud dog the OP is talking about is worth a lot, like thousands. Not worth thousands but you can have it for three low payments of $19.95, but actually worth a lot of money. Like mortgage the house and sell the kids into slavery kind of money.

The only way a stud is ever actually a valuable commodity for someone to buy when it is already accomplished is if they have the ability to campaign it, show it off, nationally and internationally earning good scores and generating the kind of interest that makes lots and lots of people willing to breed to it and buy it's progeny.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Alpha WolfOkay, that makes perfect sense. I was planning on starting with a male and female.

Any recommendations for North American breeders?
Vom Landholz in Florida
Wildhaus in MI
I know I will butcher Lisa Clarks kennel name
Zu Truen Haden MI
Rokanhaus in CT ?
Ann Kent in CA
Triton Kennels in IL

Off the top of my head.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

In addition, several people have recommended Bill Kulla and Nate Harves to me.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Stay away from a working line breeder in my general area. I can PM you for details if you are curious.

Pay attention to the advice that Chris and Tim Wild are giving.

Look at the websites of the working-line breeders reccommended by board members - see any similarities in how they operate? You should strive to be the same kind of breeder.

Buying two dogs and mating them does not make one a breeder, merely a puppy producer.

Here is an example of how things can turn out if you buy dogs and mate them without years of knowing what you are mating:

Based on the above breeder in my general area: don't know the breeder, but we have two dogs from this breeder in our Schutzhund club:

Breeder buys and imports SchH III titled dogs with very good pedigrees. Male cost 10,000 $ ?

Does one mating, three pups - sells the two males to "pet" owners, keeps the female back for future breeding.

One male turns out to be extremely dominant, always looking for a fight. Owner joins Schutzhund club to get help in directing the dog's aggression into appropriate outlets. Dog has recently been diagnosed with severe HD.

Other male is weak nerved. Afraid of people, afraid of random objects, afraid of noises. Broke his leg at age one from a fall (bad luck or bad health genes?) Had "red zone" outbursts of aggression directed at his owner - but these went away after neutering. Owner joined Schutzhund club as he was interested in the sport, and the training helped him a lot and helped the dog a lot (now has a BH), but the dog will never be "normal".

(Both owners say that had they known then what they know now, they would not have gotten a dog from this person).

This is a good example why you don't get two dogs to start and breed them - there are so many unknowns. What kind of temperament do these dogs produce, what health issues run in the lines? What has the stud been producing? What does it take to have a stable dog, of good temperament, with working ability? It takes YEARS of working and training and living with a dog to be able to answer that question.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

PPSSSSSSSSTTT. Two words - bloodlines and genetics.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Quote:
Quote:I know I will butcher Lisa Clarks kennel name
Zu Truen Haden MI
Thanks Ruq. Zu Treuen Händen. LOL
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: DocPPSSSSSSSSTTT. Two words - bloodlines and genetics.
Well, maybe the breeding dogs in my example came from stellar bloodlines and historically good genetics. But the breeding dogs themselves may have lost out on the genetic lottery and wound up with temperament flaws which may not be apparent at first glance, but could have been uncovered through the thourough testing of training for trials and titles.

So each dog needs to be evaluated on its own merit, and not merely on his or her own pedigree - though a good pedigree will help ensure that a good dog passes on good genes.

That is why the OP is being counseled to start with ONE dog, and train her and title her and live with her so she knows the dog inside and out, in person, not just on paper.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

I said nothing nothing about just knowing them on paper. Do your paper work before you visit a dog. Prepare yourself with what knowledge is available about the histories of the lines. Do your homework before the dogs. Ask questions of folks who know the bloodliines, the strengths, weaknesses, the health, temperaments, etc.

Garbage in; garbage out. Know the sire and dam. Know everything you can find about the sire and dam before looking/buying and that includes bloodlines and genetics - something most breeders and buyers nowadays have forgotten or pay little attention to.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Getting a high-quality import dog.

But Castlemaid, it sounds like those dogs are titled and have hip certifications, so based on what I have learned this means they are from reputable breeders. If they were on a website they would pass the smell test wouldn't they?????
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