stupid question probably unpopular

[selzer]

Why is there a separate forum for Protection sports for schutzhund, etc, located above dog sports? To our frail newcomers, is not anyone afraid that they may take it to believe that Schutzhund is IN, and everything esle is well, seriously below schutzhund?

For a venue that is very likely to be cliqueish anyway with the various lines, and performance people and show people and working people, I am curious as to the thinking of separating dog sports with such a definite line.

The idea that GSDs were designed and bred for schutzhund, well that is kind of the other way around. They were bred for herding, and schutzhund was designed for GSDs and is not only for GSDs.

Or does it just make sense in that different moderators are needed for schutzhund than for the whole host of other dog sports.

I thought it should probably just be a line item under dog sports like Obedience and Rally, or Agilty, or Herding. Separating it and elevating it, is one of those little subtle things that screams "we are a working line forum."

[onyx'girl]

Maybe because the SchH forum is so active, with many threads?

I don't see this board screaming working line, most of the owners seem to have showlines or mixed lines within their pack.
I do believe the WL's have become more popular as they are so versatile.

[Dainerra]

I agree with onyx. It's more than likely a numbers game, pure and simple. The majority of the people using the board do Schutzhund. A few do the other sports, but their posts could be lost in the swell of Schutzhund related topics. So, really, it is to their advantage that the other sports have their own forums. Easier to find and browse through to see if your question has already been asked.

[Lauri & The Gang]

The Sch section is a very active section. Posts about other protections sports would get lost in there very quickly.

[Castlemaid]

With that same logic, you could ask why the working dog forum is under the dog sport forum. Is it because this is an overwhelmingly pet-oriented board, with Rally and Agility being subconciously promoted and elevated by the Mods as being to be better and more important than Service dogs and Search and Rescue dogs?

I agree that Schutzhund should have its own area - the training required and the excercises expected are very different than in the other venues. I think having just ONE forum for Schutzhund is very low-key considering the vast number of forums and topics available. I forget which board (actually, I think there were more than one), but they had a zillion SchH sub-forums: SchH tracking, SchH OB, SchH Protection, SchH Misc. , SchH puppy rearing, SchH puppy imprinting, SchH Chat, SchH dog gear, SchH people gear, SchH news, SchH Brags, etc . . . (I'm exagerating, but you get the idea!).

LOL, that WAS somewhat over the top, I think!

As for being a working line forum - I think the vast majority of members are pet owners of American lines or German Show lines.
And there are a lot of forums that ARE purely working-line forums, I find this one to be a really nice balanced forums for all kinds of levels of interest and backgrounds.

Actually, I would be curious to the ratio of American lines/GSL/Working lines on the board. Maybe you are right Sue, that this is a working line board, then maybe that one part of your gripes and complaints are justified.

[DianaM]

Quote:
The idea that GSDs were designed and bred for schutzhund, well that is kind of the other way around. They were bred for herding, and schutzhund was designed for GSDs and is not only for GSDs.

Wrong. The shepherd dogs behind the GSD were designed for herding but the dear Captain was wise enough to see that technology was soon taking over and the shepherd dog was becoming a thing of the past. So his shepherd dog was created to be MORE than a herding dog, a true working dog for police, for military, for service, for protection, for companionship, for families, and yet still for herding. And THIS is why schutzhund was made. As it originally was, it was a true breed test. Now......... now we must rely on the breeders who have the true interests of the GSDs at heart to go above and beyond today's schutzhund to ensure they are breeding GSDs as they are meant to be.

It is also a very different venue from OB, rally, and agility. All of those are fun and games, any dog can succeed, etc. Schutzhund does require a totally different skill set even though there is some overlap and it is more serious. One absolutely cannot judge good breeding stock on rally titles nor agility titles but one can properly use schutzhund as a fairly good indicator. Is this a working-oriented board? Probably so, and since the German shepherd dog is a WORKING breed and not a PET breed, it should not be any other way.

[chuckstar158]

Gosh... I never even noticed.

[Liesje]

Because they are different sports, venues, methods of training. Same reason there's a different subforum for herding, tracking, conformation, agility, obedience...

[selzer]

So why is herding not up with Schutzhund as it should be a decent measure of a dog's breedability?

Though most people will disagree with me, I think Rally and obedience and agility and herding are good measures of a dog's temperament and ability, and the process of training them for these things can easily rate a determination as to whether or not a dog should be bred.

Just because a dog is titled, does not mean it should be bred. I have heard enough about night time schutzhund where it sounds like some of those dogs have titles and should not be bred either.

Schutzhund people do not give rally credit because they have not done it by and far. As you move up in Rally and Obedience the obstacles are more difficult, it is all done off leash, and the dogs must still be able to function in the close loud environment that an extremely skittish or dog aggressive dog would find impossible.

I guess I just do not buy the ideology that if your dog is not trained on the sleeve, it has nothing to offer.

I swear it must be the moon, but I am in a really weird mood lately.

If you are basing it on whether or not a less than ideal dog CAN be titled, then I don't think there is any venue that could be trusted. I believe that breeders who train and title their own dogs in any venue can make breeding decisions on them. And while I like the idea of using only titled dogs, if I were in the market for a dog, there are other indicators that I could sub in. So it is not a drop dead question for me.

I mean, I had people email a single question, are the parents both titled? I think that that is a bit much to put on a title, any title.

I think that Schutzhund is a dog sport like the others. The dog learns a set of requirements and the owners take the dogs to trials. I think it is a bit demeaning to set it apart from the others. Agility alone has nearly as many posts and more threads.

What is needed for Agility is very different than what is needed for tracking or herding. So all the arguments come down to, Schutzhund is bigger, badder, better and everyone else go to the end of the line where you belong.

Being an Obedience/Rally enthusiast though, I am used to being the red headed step child.

[selzer]

But why not have schutzhund one of the subforums, like herding, agility, tracking, etc? Why grind it in that schutzhunders are the elite?