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GSD Almost Shot Today by Police

6K views 48 replies 29 participants last post by  selzer 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Was doing the morning chores (breakfast, dishes & trash) and heard persistent unfamiliar barking. Went outside with the trash and saw two neighbor men who own big dogs too walking away from my home down the street with two dogs, one a rat-dog mutt and another a GSD, near them very agitated and barking.

At same time, school children and parents in their cars were gathering on my street to let the kids out as I live only a half block from an elementary school. These neighbors were interposing themselves between the dogs and the kids walking to school. The GSD, in particular, was being VERY AGGRESSIVE towards one of the these fellows, a large dumb-as-a-rock plow-boy who is an imposing and menacing sort of guy who was eye-locked on the GSD.

I recognized the dogs as belonging to a neighbor on the opposite side of the block and went back inside to get my motorcycle gloves (elbow length and padded), a leash, a tuna tailer (a fishing tool which is something like what the dog catchers use to snare dogs), a can of pepper spray and half a burger paddy that I'd prepared for my own GSD's breakfast. I also had the wife call the owner who said she'd be there right away.

As I walked down the street to the fricas it became pretty clear that the plow-boy was exactly the wrong guy in exactly the wrong frame of mind to de-escalate the situation. He was responding to lunges from the dog with lunges of his own even though most of the kids were now gone from the street and there wasn't anyone to protect. The other neighbor was on the phone to the Sheriff's Department.

I calmly walked near the GSD and he turned on me and lunged. I rewarded him with a chunk of hamburger paddy, stood my ground and spoke to him in a gentle, non-threatening way. At first, he ignored the treat but then began taking them, all the while keeping his eye on the brutish plow-boy. I asked the brute to leave and he retreated to the opposite side of the street and stood in the yard about half-way up.

I kept treating the GSD with paddy bits and his barking and, in particular, his snarling and showing of teeth diminished to the point that he gave me only a single warning bark before taking the treat from near me and then from my gloved hand. I then went to one knee still offering the treat with my gloved hand.

The GSD was initially surprised at my change in position and barked aggressively. I didn't flinch, but rather, continued to offer treats and speak softly and reassuringly.

I think a dog feeding and a dog willing to aggressively bite are two incompatible things. Hence, my strategy to de-escalate. And, we appeared to be making progress.

Owner shows up and with a brief command collected both dogs into her car. She thanked us, took from me the remainder of the burger paddy and left.

Three different cops showed up in different cars and got out when they saw that I had dog wrangling equipments with me. All were agitated and eager to end the confrontation that had already ended.

They asked if I owned the dog that was menacing the school children. I ran the story down to them and they said that had they gotten there when the school children were being threatened they'd have shot the dog, and maybe even both dogs, straight away. I was dumbfounded.

I told them the dogs were being agitated by the plow-boy who, despite his own ownership of a GSD didn't seem to know that his out-of-control protective emotions were influencing how the dog reacted to the situation, that his aggression engendered fear in the dog and that the dog was fear reactive, that he was the one who either instigated the dog or, at a minimum, was escalating rather than de-escalating the situation.

They said they'd still have had to shoot the dog. Then they asked for the address of the owner and vowed to ticket her.

Is shooting a dog the only reaction the authorities have anymore to a fearful dog? Sure seems like it. Shooting two dogs only one of which was large enough and aggressive enough to harm anyone. Shooting any dog without first trying to de-escalate the situation.

Sure seemed trigger happy to me. The dogs were reacting to the threats of a dumbie, not preying on the kids.

LF
 
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#5 ·
Thank you for saving those two dogs.

In answer to your question, yes unfortunately police tend to shoot dogs first and might ask questions later.
 
#6 ·
They have a duty to protect the public. If a large dog is loose and threatening to bite children, what do you realistically expect the cops to do?

A dog like that needs to be managed better and contained by it's owner, so it's not finding itself in that position.

Glad the dog and the kids were unharmed.
 
#7 · (Edited)
That's a new one on me too unless you're out plowin' the back 40.

Police officers who don't know anything about dogs are more apt to shoot than those who do. And those that do are in the minority.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.
 
#8 ·
That's a new one on me too unless you're out plowin' the back 40.
Oh...so maybe he was standing there barefoot, in coveralls & straw hat with a piece of hay hanging out of his mouth.
 
#10 ·
possibly the OP is not in (or from) the USA.
 
#11 ·
Plow-boy

plow·boy (plou′boi′)
n.
1. A boy who leads or guides a team of animals in plowing.
2. A country boy.

I'm from Texas and live here still.

The implication is that the one who agitated the GSD was unsophisticated.

I see this is going to be twisted into a discussion of colloquial expressions rather than a discussion about the cops' readiness to shoot two dogs.

Oh, well. This is one of the strangest forums I've ever visited. I shouldn't be surprised.

Maybe you could post a list of terms acceptable on this board?

LF
 
#16 ·
I see this is going to be twisted into a discussion of colloquial expressions rather than a discussion about the cops' readiness to shoot two dogs.

LF
Not going to discuss colloquial expressions other than to say I don't prefer labels.


Here is a good piece on the issues: http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e051116358_Dog-Incidents-508.pdf

Some nuggets from that piece follow:

1. Cops shoot at animals more than anything else.

"the majority of shooting incidents involve animals, most frequently dogs. For example, nearly three-fourths of the shooting incidents in Milwaukee from January 2000–September 2002 involved shots fired at dogs, with 44 dogs killed by officers during that period.6 Information furnished by various California law enforcement agencies indicated that at least one-half of all intentional discharges of a firearm by an officer from 2000–2005 involved animals.7"

2. When cops do shoot they sometimes miss and injure humans.

"For example, in Detroit in 2010, an animal-control officer was injured when a police officer fired at two dogs that were running at large.8
An even more dramatic incident occurred on July 23, 2006, when NYPD officers were called to mediate a tenant–landlord dispute. When a dog at the building began biting the leg of an officer, 26 shots were fired at the dog, and three officers were grazed by bullets.9"

3. If force is absolutely necessary, use a taser. They are effective.

"A video of a real-time example of a safe,
effective use of the Taser®—which
ensures the safety of the officers,
bystanders, and dogs, and provides an
opportunity for effective community
policing as well—can be viewed at www.
liveleak.com/view?i=a1d_1192690532."


4. "The use of a weapon is seldom required in dog-related incidents or
encounters." Amen to that.

IMHO, guns are an absolute last resort to solving a problem. If a cop is afraid of dogs then the cop needs to be better socialized with dogs--failing that they shouldn't be a cop since encounters with dogs are common and the fear aggressive cop is a danger to himself and others. There are many non-lethal options such as tasers, pepper spray, etc. Start with using your head and diffusing the situation as the OP did. Don't come out guns blazing and ask questions later.
 
#14 ·
As well.. I don't know what a "plow-boy is?" Snow plow operator>?

You did right and a great thing. Simple, kids threatend - cops shoot. Sad but true. They don't have the time and it's not their job to CONTROL the situation in most cases. Had it been a 10 pound dog, different story.

Thanks for your quick thinking, the situation turned out better since you were there. :cool:
 
#17 ·
** comment removed by admin. Does nothing to further discussion**

Your Avatar doesn't show you are from Texas. When I saw 'plow-boy', I thought perhaps it was a snow plow operator. Due to all of the adverse weather they are experiancing up north. I thought perhaps the snow plow operator jumped off the plow to gain attention of the aggressive dogs to save the children. I thought that was brave of him.
 
#18 ·
It's a shame such a good deed gets ignored so people can pick a fight......

Thanks for saving this dog and being a good neighbor. To me, the term plowboy wasn't relevant because you provided a great description of the event. I don't know that I would have been as resourceful as you. With my luck by the time the cops got there I'd be duking it out with the plowboy for making the situation worse.
 
#21 ·
It's a shame such a good deed gets ignored so people can pick a fight......
There was no intential fight to be picked. I asked a simple question. I have enjoyed reading the OP's posts in the past. They are normally well-written and entertaining.

It is sad that one term can draw the focus away from the actual act. I am from the country, as well as my husband and now my child. If the term was meant to imply that the person was ignorant because they are from the country, I do find that offensive.
 
#35 ·
That's an excellent question! I'd like to see the statistics of loose dogs that get hit and killed by cars each day? How many strays are picked up by each day and PTS by animal control? These numbers are in the 10's of thousands. When do owners begin to take responsibility for their dogs? When will people take responsibility when their dogs get loose?
 
#20 · (Edited)
I'm glad the OP was able to be there and get the situation under control and, basically, save the dogs.

I am discourage by the police response.

Back when I was moving to Arkansas, I had stopped for the night in SE Wyoming. As I was walking the late Barker Sisters the following morning, a cop car slowly went past. Here he came again, slowly. I was worried because I was traveling alone with my dogs. They had been with me all night but I had no witnesses if something had happened that night.

He stops. (#$ I'm thinking) He says "Can I pet your dogs? I just love these dogs!" You bet, sir, you can pet my dogs! Whew!!

There are LEs out there who know dogs, who like dogs, who behave appropriately. We need more of them.

[FredH - accidents happen. I venture to guess that most of us have occassionally screwed up and left a gate open, had a door pop open or something like that. We will never know how the dogs got loose. Point here is they did, a board member was, fortuitously in the right place at the right time and did the right thing.]
 
#22 ·
I find it rather troubling that the cops were going to shoot the dogs in an area that (from my understanding) is a neighborhood with people, a school, and small children all in close proximity. If they miss who knows what they could have hit. :mad: Sounds to me that that is a situation which should include trying anything else first and shooting last.
 
#24 ·
LF I am happy that you were able to difuse this and the dogs got to go home with the owner.

Owner probably needs a ticket.

Thanks for helping out.
 
#25 ·
This thread probably has had 17 notifies and will probably be shut down, but may as well comment while I can.

Glad the dogs didn't get killed.

Don't blame the cops if they killed a dog that was menacing school children or plow boys, even if the plow boy was causing the dog to be more agitated. Sorry, owners need to keep their dogs contained. Accidents happen. There is not much difference to loosing your dog when it gets squashed in the roadway, or loosing your dog being shot by a cop. The remedy is to keep your dogs properly contained, and stop letting accidents happen.

I'm from the country too, and while we may have our share of big backwards oafs, we certainly do not have the monopoly on them.
 
#26 ·
Hey, could you guys cool it with the swearing and pseudo swearing (including ****)? Neither is allowed on this board.

Thank you,

ADMIN
 
#27 ·
I spelled losing, loosing, not once but twice! Wow! In the same post saying that country folks aren't all big backwards oafs. LOL! Guess spellin' wassnt all that 'portant at the country schul.
 
#28 ·
Update

Owner was ticketed, twice. Once for allowing the dogs to menace school children and the second time for tying a bleach bottle to the collar of the smaller dog so the smaller dog wouldn't be able to squeeze through the bars of the wrought iron fence. She said the dogs never get loose. The cops pointed to the Chlorox bottle as evidence that they did.

I've warned her before about the appearance of that sort of thing and the warning included that she might be ticketed if someone complained. I told her it might be interpreted as cruelty.

Offending dogs got loose, according to the owner, when we had a power outage of about an hour during the previous evening which, again according to the owner, deactivated the lock on the wrought iron gate which encloses the driveway.

I have to accept what the owner claims. But I never saw an electrical lock on a gate that didn't fail safe in the locked position. So, I suspect the gate wasn't closed properly by someone and she was trying to avoid blame. But who knows.

I talked to most of the moms who regularly drop off their kids and they said that the dog was at the school yard about a block away first causing trouble. They said the school crossing guard first shooed them away from the school. It's an elementary school so the kids are really, really small.

Oaf, plow-boy, hero, whatever chose not to talk to the cops. In fact, he sort of slinked away when they approached me. As I'm sure he was the one who picked up the trail of the dog and that he was the one who caused the incessant barking in the first place which drew me and other neighbors out of our homes I was surprised he didn't want to tell the tale to the cops. He just walked away and when he got 50 yards away turned to look over his shoulder and quickened his pace like a crook or something.

Say what you like, but I pay attention to people's mannerisms and expressions. That's probably from my time in a lovely little garden spot
SE Asia in the 70's.

Anway, he was in no hurry to relate his encounter with the dogs to the cops. Strange.

LF
 
#29 ·
Fail Safe means they open when power is dropped..most egress locks HAVE to be fail safe by code in case there is a fire or other situation where power is cut off..that way you are not locked in. So if they used an actual egress mag lock or electric strike on their gate it would definitely open if the power goes.

Fail Secure means they stay locked when power is cut ( they need power to open , as opposed to fail safe needs to power to stay locked) . Fail secure devices usually have a push bar or big green button near the inside of the exit so that you can get out if power is cut.

( use to design and sell security gear )

Thanks for being a decent neighbor. You actually made me think to have some stuff like that handy as we have a few less than friendly frequent escape artists here and while I would LOVE to see their owners fined I do not want to see the pooches hurt.

And thanks for your service ( I take it you are a Veteran ) :)
 
#30 · (Edited)
Good job on handling the situation. You were very cool headed when a lot of people (including myself) would have probably went into oh crap mode

As for having to shoot a dog, dogs have the ability to kill people, especially a child. As for less lethal force, humans understand the reason behind pepper spray or a taser. Ow this hurts im going to lay down and put my hands behind my back. Dogs cant do that, if you spray a fearful dog and it gets more agitated and attacks you then what? Your going to want a gun or someone with one or else you might not be going home.

or if your child was killed by a dog and the cop said to you taser didnt affect it, didnt want to shoot it...

Not trying to take away from your accomplishment, just contributing to the discussion
 
#31 ·
According to Wikipaedia data, 31 fatalities due to dogs happened in the US in 2013. Of these fatalities 11 of them lived with the victim, 3 were the babysitter's dogs, 1 a grandparents, 1 an aunts, 5 belonged to people in a home they were visiting, and 3 belonged to neighbors. Leaving about 7 fatalities due to dogs that people encountered out on a walk.

Of these deaths,
11 were 4 years old or under
7 were 5-7 years old
3 were 75 or over

Which leaves 10 people killed by dogs, (sorry pit folks, mostly multiple pits or pit mixes) between the ages of 8 and 74. Most of these were their own dogs. Many of them chained in a back yard.


As of March 2nd of this year, the US is said to have 317.6 Million people.

The idea that we should be worrying about or carrying guns to protect our lives because of dog fatalities is ludicrous. You may as well walk around with a lightning rod because your chances of being struck by lightning and getting killed are a whole lot better.
 
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