Dog fight = dead dog

[lookin71]

Hello,

I have a story to tell. I would welcome advice. I am a complete dog person (aren't we all?) and have owned a few, but this is my first GSD.

Rex is a beautiful animal, 18 months, and you couldn't ask for a better dog around people. Usually he gets along fine with other dogs, with the exception of males who have not been neutered. Rex was neutered last Saturday.

Last Wednesday, we had four extra boys over for a birthday party, so there were 5 out in the front field on the trampolines (we live on 27 acres). The neighbor's beagle came over, and about the time he got to the fence line Rex hit him at about 30 miles per hour and tore him up in the next several minutes. I was 20 miles away and could do nothing to stop it. The kids yelled at him to stop, like that would work. We are talking about males 15 and 16 years old. They didn't do anything. So Rex chewed poor Jack to the point of several hundred dollars of vet bills and today he died from his injuries.

Apparently Rex went ballistic. I know this happened once before but the neighbor grabbed Rex by his collar and yanked him and he stopped. I don't know what problem these two dogs had and I never thought this would happen, and now the kids are sort of scared of Rex 'cause he turned into a complete snarling wolf-like being trying to kill an animal.

So, can Rex ever be trusted? This has never happened before. Some other dogs used to bother him but they don't come around any more 'cause Rex is too big to mess with. There are a lot of dogs running loose around here: pets, people drop dogs off 'cause they don't want them, etc. Rex is usually in a two acre fenced in area, on a leash, or a chain by the house, unless we are outside with him.

I know Rex has an extraordinary prey drive. We have to watch him around other animals like ducks. He will kill ground hogs, opossums or anything he can get his mouth on. But doesn't really bother the cats.

Was this a one time thing or wassup with this dog? He is definitely Alpha, but will neutering him help? My wife left me with no choice on the neutering; that or he was GONE. I thought about having a female and puppies but not any more. I think he would have made a fantastic working dog with his instincts, but we don't need that in a pet. He is 93 pounds of adoring pet most of the time.

Thanks guys,

Donnie

[misterW]

Originally Posted by lookin71

Hello,

I have a story to tell. I would welcome advice. I am a complete dog person (aren't we all?) and have owned a few, but this is my first GSD.

Rex is a beautiful animal, 18 months, and you couldn't ask for a better dog around people. Usually he gets along fine with other dogs, with the exception of males who have not been neutered. Rex was neutered last Saturday.

Last Wednesday, we had four extra boys over for a birthday party, so there were 5 out in the front field on the trampolines (we live on 27 acres). The neighbor's beagle came over, and about the time he got to the fence line Rex hit him at about 30 miles per hour and tore him up in the next several minutes. I was 20 miles away and could do nothing to stop it. The kids yelled at him to stop, like that would work. We are talking about males 15 and 16 years old. They didn't do anything. So Rex chewed poor Jack to the point of several hundred dollars of vet bills and today he died from his injuries.

Apparently Rex went ballistic. I know this happened once before but the neighbor grabbed Rex by his collar and yanked him and he stopped. I don't know what problem these two dogs had and I never thought this would happen, and now the kids are sort of scared of Rex 'cause he turned into a complete snarling wolf-like being trying to kill an animal.

So, can Rex ever be trusted? This has never happened before. Some other dogs used to bother him but they don't come around any more 'cause Rex is too big to mess with. There are a lot of dogs running loose around here: pets, people drop dogs off 'cause they don't want them, etc. Rex is usually in a two acre fenced in area, on a leash, or a chain by the house, unless we are outside with him.

I know Rex has an extraordinary prey drive. We have to watch him around other animals like ducks. He will kill ground hogs, opossums or anything he can get his mouth on. But doesn't really bother the cats.

Was this a one time thing or wassup with this dog? He is definitely Alpha, but will neutering him help? My wife left me with no choice on the neutering; that or he was GONE. I thought about having a female and puppies but not any more. I think he would have made a fantastic working dog with his instincts, but we don't need that in a pet. He is 93 pounds of adoring pet most of the time.

Thanks guys,

Donnie

Keeping a dog tied up can mess them up psychologically. They can't move much, which means they can't run, so they can feel cornered and trapped. Take away the flight option and all you have is fight. If I wanted to make a dog mean and unstable, I'd chain them up a lot. Might have been a contributing factor.

[Lucy Dog]

No - Rex can and should never be trusted around other dogs ever again. He always needs to be supervised. Once is a mistake, second time is completely your fault.

If you let him roam like this, he will do this again given the opportunity. I'll guarantee it.

And don't blame this on prey drive, being an alpha, and neutering. This is behavioral. It's up to you now to make sure it never happens again.

[chelle]

You said it had never happened before, but then another paragraph down, you said it had occured one other time. ? Confused.

Can he be trusted? No. I'd say most certainly NOT. EVER. AGAIN.

What a sad story.

I am tired.

[lookin71]

"And don't blame this on prey drive, being an alpha, and neutering."

Hey Paul,

I honestly don't want to blame it on anything, I have NO idea what is up with Rex. I have owned, as an adult, three labs who were awesome pets and I don't recall them ever getting in a fight with other dogs. Rex will likely never be unsupervised around dogs or other animals again; I just don't understand this particular "behavior".

What makes a dog do this? What kinda frigging behavior makes a dog attack another dog like this?

Are people safe around him? We think so, but is this just a behavior with other dogs or do I need to worry about people as well?

[lookin71]

Originally Posted by chelle

You said it had never happened before, but then another paragraph down, you said it had occured one other time. ? Confused.

Can he be trusted? No. I'd say most certainly NOT. EVER. AGAIN.

What a sad story.

I am tired.

As far as it happening before, all I know is the neighbor said Rex and Jack got into it. They really didn't elaborate. I have seen their Husky and Jack get into it, but it didn't amount to anything at all. I don't think, at that time, Rex had time to do much because Ronnie was out there at the time and stopped it. They never said he was trying to kill Jack, and that was months ago and never another problem till last week.

I know, our fault. I just thought it was over food or something on the back porch.

[KentuckyGSDLover]

I can't help you much, but I'm also curious what makes a dog kill another dog. I've never had one that did, either. I do have a friend with a Siberian Husky that she has had to keep away from other dogs it's entire life. It's a good companion to her, doesn't even bother her cat, but it will go for another dog if it's given the chance (which she makes sure it doesn't).

[Lucy Dog]

Dog aggression and human aggression are two completely different things. Dogs don't look at other dogs the same way they look at humans. If the dog has never shown any kinds of aggression (and that includes growling) towards a human than I wouldn't worry too much. If you're not sure, ALWAYS supervise. You know your dog better than me.

As for what makes a dog attack another dog... I really couldn't tell you for sure. Every dog and situation is different. Some dogs are just hardwired that way through it's genetics and some dogs just have bad experiences with other dogs to cause that aggression or fear. Nature vs. Nurture.

Regardless and like I mentioned in my first post, after this, do not allow him to roam unsupervised or without adult supervision ever again. He did it once to a dog, so he'll more than likely do it again.

[Konotashi]

Originally Posted by lookin71

Usually he gets along fine with other dogs, with the exception of males who have not been neutered. Rex was neutered last Saturday.

...The neighbor's beagle came over, and about the time he got to the fence line Rex hit him at about 30 miles per hour and tore him up in the next several minutes.

So the dog, whom you know isn't good with other dogs, nor has an absolute PERFECT recall, was let out to roam around during a 'party' (where no one is truly 'watching' him)? When you KNOW there are other dogs roaming around freely, as stated later in your post?

Originally Posted by lookin71

I was 20 miles away and could do nothing to stop it.

????

Originally Posted by lookin71

The kids yelled at him to stop, like that would work.

From the sound of it, it was known he doesn't have a reliable recall. By reliable recall, I mean the dog can be called off of anything and come back to you - whether it be a cat, little green aliens, or another dog.

Originally Posted by lookin71

We are talking about males 15 and 16 years old. They didn't do anything.

Was it truly their responsibility to do anything about it? Were they supposed to run to the fight/mauling to pry Rex off of the beagle, in which would have likely gotten one of them bitten?

Originally Posted by lookin71

Apparently Rex went ballistic. I know this happened once before but the neighbor grabbed Rex by his collar and yanked him and he stopped.

Where were you when this happened, and why weren't you the one who got your dog off?

Originally Posted by lookin71

I don't know what problem these two dogs had and I never thought this would happen.

How can you possibly say that, after you just said that your dog attacked the beagle once before?

Originally Posted by lookin71

So, can Rex ever be trusted? This has never happened before.

This part I'm not entirely sure about, but he can be managed. Practice NILIF (nothing in life is free) religiously. Try and get him into some obedience classes. Do NOT let him off lead outside unless he has a PERFECT recall!

Originally Posted by lookin71

There are a lot of dogs running loose around here: pets, people drop dogs off 'cause they don't want them, etc. Rex is usually in a two acre fenced in area, on a leash, or a chain by the house, unless we are outside with him.

This right here sounds like it could have been a factor in why your dog dislikes other dogs, particularly intact males. He gets 2 acres all to himself. He may feel the need to protect HIS territory. If another male comes onto 'his' land, he sees it as an intrusion.

Originally Posted by lookin71

I know Rex has an extraordinary prey drive. We have to watch him around other animals like ducks. He will kill ground hogs, opossums or anything he can get his mouth on.

Again, he needs a reliable recall. What if he decides to attack a rabid raccoon, or an animal with some type of disease that he could catch?

Originally Posted by lookin71

Was this a one time thing or wassup with this dog?

It will continue if you don't train him. It's not the dog's fault - it's yours. I'm going to assume he had little socialization as a pup, not to mention he's outside in a yard to call his own or on a chain.

Originally Posted by lookin71

He is definitely Alpha, but will neutering him help? My wife left me with no choice on the neutering; that or he was GONE.

Why did she demand the dog be neutered? And why is he alpha? I don't usually believe in the alpha things, but he should not be allowed to think that he is in control. YOU should be the one controlling everything.

Originally Posted by lookin71

I thought about having a female and puppies but not any more.

Good, thank you for changing your mind.

Originally Posted by lookin71

I think he would have made a fantastic working dog with his instincts, but we don't need that in a pet.

Unfortunately, the fact is - he IS a working dog. A breed that was bred to work a strenuous job all day long and be close to their handler. If he's outside all the time, he can't be close to his family, which isn't the ideal situation for a GSD.

Originally Posted by lookin71

He is 93 pounds of adoring pet most of the time.

Adoring pet or lawn ornament?

[chelle]

Originally Posted by lookin71

...Rex will likely never be unsupervised around dogs or other animals again;...

I can't address your other questions, but that he will "likely never be" unsupervised around dogs isn't good enough. Your dog has mauled and killed another dog. Please don't downplay how incredibly serious that is. Leaving this dog in the care of teen males is not supervised.

Are your neighbors going to sue you? I know this is not nice, but I would sue you. You're coming across as rather nonchalant about this issue, but maybe that is just the "tone" of words on a forum.

I'm assuming, by your post alone, that you don't really know *what* your dog is doing, when and where. That is inexcusable. Contain your dog.