Can someone please answer...

[emjworks05]

I have noticed latley that some people dont like Am showline dogs, what it is about them that people really dislike?

I dont mean this to start a argument, this is an honest question. So please no rude comments.

[Amaruq]

If you pay attention there are three main camps of Shepherds. Many view the working line people as ones who concentrate on working their dogs, usually in SCH sometimes in herding, seldom on showing in conformation. Many view the German Show lines as dogs who have to acheive some type of a working title in order to breed in accordance with the SV, however, their prime focus is on showing in the SV ring. Then many view the AM lines as only dogs bred for a flying trot and not working AT all (while some AM line breeders do NOT even get as much as CGC's there are others that do OB, Agility and Herding). These are very broad assumptions which are sometimes cause very heated debates which leads to one group or another belittling the other camps.

There are vast amounts of differences in structure and temperament between the three groups as well. This leads to more heated debates on which views are correct; for which there is not absolute answer that everyone will agree.

Clear as mud?

[emjworks05]

Yeah very, It just makes me sad to hear people belittle the Am showlines, like they are some kind of disease.

[Amaruq]

To give you a general idea of some of the "arguments" from each camp:

American lines tend to be viewed as hock walking, weak nerved and over angulated dogs that lost all ability to work.

Euro Show Lines tend to be viewed as roached back, pretty dogs that cannot work.

Euro working lines are ill-structured dogs that are too "driven" to live with psycho monsters.

Quite honestly none of it is completly true while some of it is not incorrect either.

People that are heavily involved in their version of the breed are very passionate that "their" version is the only "correct" version.

[emjworks05]

yes, i also understand that people that are involved in their "version" will think that they are correct. I love all three but it seems like i hear more bad things about the Am bred lines.

[DianaM]

My personal view follows. There are dogs in each line I like, however there is one theme that holds true in the dogs I like: intelligent, active, agile, versatile, able to work in some capacity (even if it's just agility). A lot of American line dogs are wobbly and drunk-looking when they walk. To me, no dog should be like that aside from a health problem but many American lines are like this because of how they were bred. My beef carries through to other breeds- I cannot stand what has happened to the American cocker spaniel and the showlines of much of the Gundog and Herding group. AKC showline border collies just aren't really border collies anymore. The terrier group is a sheer, utter mess- only a handful can do their original jobs. The English bulldog can't even have natural births due to breeding for that stupidly enormous head and wonky body. It's downright depressing.

I suppose my beef is not with the dogs so much as the breeders and judges and clubs who perpetuate caricatured versions of dogs who were once truly functional. The English bulldog can barely breathe correctly. The show springer spaniel would get stuck in a bush five minutes into a hunt or field trial. Some show border collies have no sheep sense. Many American showlines would physically break down if they did the types of activities more "structurally normal" dogs did. In the interest of type and fixing even more type, so many health problems have been bred into our breeds. A recent show exposed just how bad it is in the popular Cavalier King Charles spaniel, to the point where breeders were WILLINGLY breeding dogs with neurological problems and looking down on people who were questioning that practice. It's just a crying shame.

[emjworks05]

yes it is.

[Brightelf]

Some folks on this board have American-line dogs that are gorgeous, strong, and stable! I *think* .. not sure.. maybe WiscTiger and Amaruq have the ones I am thinking of-- REALLY gorgeous, sound-minded dogs that I happen to envy... yes, envy!!

That said, I personally don't like the most extreme Am showline dogs bred specificly to do well in specialty shows. In my viewpoint, these specimens are too often nervous, flighty, insecure, unstable in the mind.

Again... these extreme "specialty type" Am line show dogs differ from the VERY nice stable, smart, handsome hobby-breeder American dogs bred to be smart, reliable companions.

I can admit that I am leery of weak nerves in those extreme Am showlines bred for specialty wins. That aside, I can not look down upon any type of GSD-- there are sane, stable members in each group.... one must be a good researcher and shopper to avoid the problem dogs in each type, and find that perfect match.

[Amaruq]

While we appreciate your envy, Patti, my guys are German Working with some German Show lines (which are actually black and red working dogs but....).

Daphne (Andaka) has some nice AM lines THAT WORK too.

[DianaM]

This goes with the German showlines as well.



I don't care what breed of dog it is, but if it was originally intended to perform, it should STILL be able to PERFORM. I wonder how much pain this dog would be in if it would have to work. Even just biking along with its owner or going on a hike, backpacking in the woods! I think a dog like this would have issues just in an active home. That cannot be comfortable. What purpose does this serve?