UKC is NOT lower quality - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 02:32 PM
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Yeah...its really not perspective when you're talking about the MAJORITY. If you just go to their websites and look at the show listings...AKC probably has at least one show a weekend in most states, and sometimes even more than one. Just because YOU don't look them up or know where to find them doesn't mean there aren't more. Even in Michigan, where the UKC is based, there are about the same number of AKC shows as there are UKC. Everywhere else, its not even close. I've spoken to people at AKC shows that love doing UKC but have stopped because its so hard to find shows and actually title due to the lack of shows.

I'm not badmouthing the UKC, just a fact that its way smaller nationally than the AKC.

National breeders are those that are involved in national competitions and do show their dogs nationally. I know its a big deal for my club members to go to the GSDCA Nationals, and we have one member that went to the USCA Nationals as well this year. Its the people that do bring in dogs from outside their state or region in order to grow their lines and those breeders tend to send dogs to other places to stud or breed so that their lines are used all over. I know that the norm is for "local" breeding to generally be very regionalized as its very expensive to send dogs away to other places and just easier to do locally, but there are a lot of breeders that have "national" recognition due to their dogs.

It also helps that the national AKC events are nationally televised and a lot of non-dog people even tune into them.

Last edited by martemchik; 01-09-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-13-2013, 06:40 PM
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I have observed that at least the UKC has noticed, and updated their breed standard to discourage some of the things that in my opinion, have been a detriment to the breed.

From the UKC standard:

"The tendencies toward exaggeration and steep angles are unacceptable. German Shepherd Dogs with unstable temperaments, sharply angulated croups, overly long front and rear pasterns, and hocks that are weak and wobbly are poor representations of this working breed. UKC is unwilling to condone the validity of using exaggerated specimens of this breed in a breeding program and, to preserve its health and vibrancy, cautions judges about awarding wins to these representatives."

I think it is ridiculous when they broadcast an AKC national level show on television, and the commentator mentions that "German Shepherds are used as police dogs" when there is zero chance of any of the dogs exhibited ever being a police dog. Capt. von Stephanitz would roll over in his grave if he saw what some have done to his breed.

Regardless of one's opinion of the UKC, at least they had the fortitude to recognize, and change their standard from what the "show" people have bred for. That is NOT what Capt. von Stephanitz had in mind: a dog that can actually work, and has the physical structure to support it.

Police K9/Explosive Detection/IPO/Ring
Working GSD/Malinois

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Last edited by Tim Connell; 01-13-2013 at 06:45 PM.
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-13-2013, 09:14 PM
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I started K9 Nosework class this past week and there is a woman in my class I see all over at UKC events (she might even be a judge). I talked to her afterwards because they are also adding a UKC version of nosework ("K9 Nosework" is its own organization). I mentioned flyball and she also mentioned she wanted to get a tracking program added as well. So what if our events are not televised but it's nice to be able to make connections like that and feel involved, like I could contribute and not just blow money on entry fees for other people's clubs.
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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-13-2013, 09:24 PM
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working dogs don't need to get exposure to the masses....they just go about the business and who cares if there is publicity. Though it does help when the ads placed in venues give activities more support.

On the other hand, who wants to line someones pocket for a bit of $ thrown at them...possibly with a bit of control added.

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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:08 PM
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You get competition "wins" at Group level in UKC regardless of what was entered in the other breeds, providing your dog beats at least on other dog. I took Savvy to the UKC show and of course, no other PyrSheps. The first show he placed 4rth in Group and there were only four dogs. No points. The second show he placed 2nd in Group and there were more dogs so he got a competition win. Also got a Total Dog Award for Qing in agility at that show.

The reason UKC doesn't require you to have competition against your own breed is because they are an organization that has a lot of rare breeds participating. At any UKC show I have gone to, I have seen breeds I never see anywhere else. Sometimes there will be a handful of these dogs owned by the same one or two people. More often than not, it will just be one single entry of the breed though. Breeds I have never met outside of a UKC show and suspect there's maybe a handful in the whole state. If UKC required competition wins against dogs of the same breed, most of these people wouldn't ever bother showing because there's no way that there will be more than one of their breed at any shows they go to.

I don't think a UKC CH is supposed to be difficult to get. And I don't think that a basic CH really should be difficult to get. It should mean that the dog looks like it's breed and has decent structure with no DQs or serious faults. I hate that so much time and money has to be spent getting an AKC CH but that is the game. AKC only wants a certain % of dogs showing to finish in any given year. That doesn't mean the rest of the dogs showing aren't worthy examples of the breed though. I don't really know when you break it all down, if an AKC CH really means more than a UKC CH. Especially on a breed like a GSD where you have little hope of finishing your own first dog yourself in a timely manner without spending thousands upon thousands of dollars doing it. Getting singles isn't so hard if you have the right type of dog but majors gets to be more of an issue. It's all just a game though really, regardless of venue. There's AKC CHs who really aren't great examples of the breed and UKC CHs that aren't great examples of the breed. A CH means what you think it means I suppose. Some people place uber importance on AKC CHs. I think it's cool and all but far more impressive to me when it's just part of a bigger picture. A CH with upper level titles in other venues is a really nice accomplishment IMO. I finish my dogs with that goal in mind.

FWIW it's harder to finish a Belgian in UKC than in AKC. Lots of dogs that finish in AKC would never have a shot at a UKC CH or even getting one competition win. In Belgians, the AKC ring allows for far more variation in type than the UKC ring. In UKC all Belgians are judged by breeder-judges, all are given written critiques and get show ratings. They all compete against each other for competition wins and Belgians are not offered at very many UKC shows at all. I like a lot about it but don't really see finishing UKC CHs on any of my dogs unless something changes. I will show in UKC when I can because I think there's value in the critiques and ratings, not because I'm going for a UKC CH. One of my dogs is close and has been for years but I could never get her last competition win (she was RWB at the AKC National a few years ago though) and have sort of given up.
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