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Old 01-08-2013, 01:22 AM   #21 (permalink)
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very difficult to win AKC/CKC with a working line Shepherd, especially sable

well , in truth , the CKC / AKC ring has always accepted sables -

a working line dog , well built , with proper conformation should be just fine under an All Breed judge which appreciates balance more than a Specialty judge which tends to favour the more extreme type . The Specialty judges tend to come from the respective Breed Clubs, either the GSDCof A or the GSDCof C.

there are all sorts of tricks -- some handlers will take on lesser quality animals to handle to "pad" the ring , more dogs defeated , the greater the points . Some handlers will go to remote areas bring a lesser dog who would not finish in a higher competition area -- so that he is the best of a mediocre lot, and wins , does not mean he is great , or good , just the best out of what was presented.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:49 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Read this on the UKC Forums....soooo it really does seem you can finish a dog with no competition in its breed
That's crazy, they shouldn't get wins outside of the breed, kind of defeats the purpose, no? For us it's not an issue, there's never *not* competition (and we usually get beat!). I've never understood why UKC tallies points anyway. If you get your 3 wins (within your breed) then you've got your points and even if you get double the points you need, it doesn't help you any.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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there are all sorts of tricks -- some handlers will take on lesser quality animals to handle to "pad" the ring , more dogs defeated , the greater the points .
I was asked to use my WL pup to add to the competition. It was fightin' words in my opinion, LOL and a bit of a bash to my dog and his breeding! I was even offered the entry fee. I didn't take up the offer but would have been proud if my dog placed in front of the dog that I was asked to compete against.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:58 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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there are all sorts of tricks -- some handlers will take on lesser quality animals to handle to "pad" the ring , more dogs defeated , the greater the points . Some handlers will go to remote areas bring a lesser dog who would not finish in a higher competition area --
In the AKC ring handlers will have people with lesser dogs compete in order to make majors. They also go to places with less competition.

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so that he is the best of a mediocre lot, and wins , does not mean he is great , or good , just the best out of what was presented.
A GOOD judge will withhold the win if there isn't a dog of suitable quality presented. I've been there - twice - with my Skye Terrier. His topline wasn't the greatest but I was showing him just for fun. He would either be the ONLY dog or one of just a couple. I had two different judges put him up as WD but withhold the breed win.

I appreciate their honesty and dedication to having only the best move on to the group/show ring.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I live less than a mile from UKC's headquarters.

That's all I know. lol.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm interested to see what its like. I'm planning on sending in my paperwork for UKC registration today or tomorrow so that I can do a show in the beginning of February. Might be my only shot at a show for a while since they're so few and far in between in my area. I'm guessing there will either be some competition, or none at all.

I know of a bitch (hopefully my next pup's dam) who is V rated and was entered in an AKC show. She got first the first day (due to no competitors) and then moved on to the group. The second day the judge gave her a win but withheld the first place ribbon. So she couldn't go onto the group competition.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I might check out the obedience portion of the show and whatever else they'll have since I know UKC puts more weight on doing conformation and performance in the same show. So that might be something I'd be interested in as well.

In my opinion, the AKC has just been able to develop an exclusivity and the general public thinks its the "one true registry." Being so much bigger and more well known it's championships carry more weight with regular people and most breeders (they get more money for puppies due to AKC championships). AKC is what our breed club uses and judges dogs based on AKC rules. There are a lot of reasons why the AKC is so much bigger and thought of as so much better, but few of them boil down to the actual dogs shown. It's just the marketing they've been able to do over the past 100+ years and being the chosen registry in the United States.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I might check out the obedience portion of the show and whatever else they'll have since I know UKC puts more weight on doing conformation and performance in the same show.
This is why I like the UKC events...it tries to show the total dog, not just the conformation side.
I know AKC does as well, but UKC is geared more toward the sport/hunt/working breeds, IMO, not the little pocket companions.
Taken from their site:
The programs at UKC include Obedience Trials, Rally Obedience Trials, Agility Trials, Weight Pull Events, Terrier Races, Dock Jumping Events, Lure Coursing, Total Junior Program, Coonhound Field Trials, Water Races, Nite Hunts and Bench Shows, Hunt Tests for retrieving breeds, Pointing Dog Events, Beagle Events (including Hunts and Bench Shows, and Cur and Feist Squirrel and Coon Events and Bench Shows.

Rounding out the 'Total Dog' package, UKC Conformation Events are among our largest growing events. UKC dog shows are family events designed by and for the breeder-owner-handler. Professional Handlers are not eligible to exhibit dogs for others at UKC Conformation Events. At UKC dog shows, the emphasis is on the DOG, not the SHOW.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Yeah Total Dog points are a big deal for some people! I know a lot of people (not GSD) that *only* enter Total Dog (meaning they are *always* doing conformation and a performance event).

UKC for GSDs can be hit or miss but for a lot of breeds it's a pretty big deal and there are really high quality dogs. Of course it goes without saying for breeds that are not in AKC (Klee Kai, White Shepherds, for example) but even some that are have a very high quality UKC following that are not your novice handler like myself.

I find that at smaller shows with GSDs it's very hard to get anywhere with a young male class dog. I've offered to help enter and handle dogs for several people so that we can get some competition going in the classes and exhibit some GSDs other than the extreme Amlines (which do show up in UKC though not really *the* type like they are in AKC specialty). It's a win-win for them. If the dog wins, they're getting points and if the dog loses, oh well they didn't have to handle the dog anyway. One of the young WL males we put in ended up doing pretty well and a friend got to try handling for the first time. I helped an acquaintance enter her dog at a show last minute and there was a Junior handler that offered to handle so she got the Juniors points as well. At the bigger shows there's generally GSD competition in every class. The nice thing about UKC is that they do TL numbers and Day-Of-Show entries so there's nothing prohibiting someone from getting involved with their dog, your dog doesn't even have to be registered the day of the show and it can still enter and compete (but you can only keep the points/wins if you get the dog properly registered within 60 days).

Also I like that the UKC technically does not allow excessive grooming. Some people still do and I have no idea how they get caught, but for most people it's nice to not have to worry about getting judged based on the grooming and not the actual condition of the dog. Of course I bathe my dog the week of a show, trim nails, clean ears, thoroughly brush and make sure the coat is in good condition, but we aren't pressured to spend hours grooming on a show day. The last show I was at I took my dog off the lure course directly into the ring (the coursing was taking forever) and he ended up getting his first big win in the Champions class.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:44 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Being so much bigger
What do you mean by "bigger"?
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