UKC is NOT lower quality

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by carmspack

it , once again , depends on who your competition was for the show event .

Well, yeah, I mean that's true no matter what you do. That's the nature of it being a competition.

I'm lucky to live an hour from UKC headquarters so there is no shortage of events here or competition. You can always get wins with GSDs and typically I am competing against CH and GRCH dogs. I've been in the breed ring a few times with a GRCH, Multi-BIS bitch. She is not my type (none of the dogs her owner exhibits are, but the owner is very nice and very helpful, another reason to like UKC) but it's good experience being able to handle my own dogs in the same ring. Most of the handlers of GSDs have decades of experience breeding and showing GSDs in UKC and AKC.

One thing I like about UKC is you only get points and wins against your own breed. Group placements are nice but don't count. If there's not enough competition in your breed ring, then you can't just automatically get wins and titles (I believe this is also true of AKC).

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by MustLoveGSDs

From what I've read, it's so easy to get a UKC CH. People have put UKC CH on their dogs without ever seeing/beating another dog of their breed.

You read wrong, it's impossible. You need at least 100 points and 3 wins. Wins are, well, wins. You don't get one if you don't beat other dogs and you can't get wins in Group.

For GRCH you need five wins in the CH class, I believe under 5 different judges, and have to beat at least two other dogs each time.

I agree with Xeph, I see too many dogs getting wins where the judge should have just withheld if the dogs were not the right level of quality and there wasn't enough competition. I don't know why judges don't do that more often, it's perfectly within their right to do so. This is one aspect of UKC I could like to see changed, although like I said there are some really nice GSDs being exhibited at the popular shows here so it hasn't been a problem for in this area (I never get wins!). So it's not perfect, but no venue is.

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by Xeph

Yup.

The UKC GrCh is harder to obtain (and rather well respected), but then I think, why not just put those rules in place in the first place for a championship?

I would concur but how would it work? Best of Winners 5 times? What "class" would you have to win to earn the win?

[Xeph]

If there's not enough competition in your breed ring, then you can't just automatically get wins and titles (I believe this is also true of AKC).

Well...not exactly.

You can get a major through a Group win. If there is no competition in your breed, you get no points, but automatically get BOB and sent to group.

If your dog goes Group 1 and there was a major in any of the other breeds that are exhibiting in the group that day, your dog is awarded a major (nobody in the group "loses" their major, btw).

So, there's no competition in GSDs, so Nikon goes BOB, goes to Group, wins the group. There was a 3 point major in Malinois that day. Congratulations, Nikon now has a major win.

[cliffson1]

There was a time AKC probably had superior specimens in general.....now I think most of the dogs in AKC ring are pets also.

[dogfaeries]

Okay, I'll put my 2 cents in. And believe me, that's ALL it's worth, since I am a newcomer to showing in conformation, though I've been going to dog shows for the last 45 years as a spectator.

It's HARD to finish a GSD in AKC. And it's not automatic, even if you are a big name handler.


I'll give you a recent example, using my champion bitch, Carly, and a champion bitch that was shown by a TOP handler. These girls are about a month apart in age, and have been shown against each other several times. They finished their championships within TWO days of each other, on the same weekend.

Carly finished with 19 points, 3 majors, under 8 judges. She won her points with my handler, my co-owner, and two different junior handlers. Oh, and I am a nobody, with what I think is a nice bitch.

The other bitch was shown by a TOP handler. She finished with 15 points, 2 majors, under 9 judges. I guarantee you that this bitch was shown in way more shows than my bitch was. This bitch is owned by someone that has been in the breed for many many many years (who can afford this TOP handler).

Yes, the AKC German Shepherd Dog breed ring is dominated by handlers. I have a handler because I can't show a dog to save my life. Yes, I have been frustrated because sometimes I think the judge is out of their everlovin' mind.

[Wild Wolf]

I agree. I value UKC more so than AKC/CKC - very difficult to win AKC/CKC with a working line Shepherd, especially sable. UKC appreciates the working shepherd.

[MustLoveGSDs]

Originally Posted by Liesje

You read wrong, it's impossible. .

I don't think so? Here are 3 different examples of what I've read from the other breed forum I'm on(as I am sure this topic has been discussed ad nauseum on other forums as well), there are others who obtained a UKC Ch in one weekend but I don't feel like digging:

"So, two days of shows for a total of 4 shows = one UKC championship. In each of those 4 shows, xxx was the only Doberman which really surprised me - I really thought that there would be more. I know that if I ever wanted to put a Grand Championship on him I would have to find shows where several UKC champion Dobermans were competing...... so it is unlikely that I will ever do that. I did find it to be relaxed and fun - no pros handling so I actually looked pretty darn good in the ring - LOL! It is great ring practice with your dog and I do recommend it to anyone who is considering trying it."

"Yes you can get a UKC ch. without ever beating another dog of your breed by beating other breeds in group. We earned our championship that way however my girl is also an AKC championship and that we fought long and hard for. I like them both for different reasons... so I will always show in both but for me I want a breeder who competes in AKC as well."

"I showed xxx one weekend in UKC she had her title and went Reserve Best in Show a couple of the shows, it was good practice for us both. I have to say to me the disappointing thing I have seen in UKC is lack of breed quality or type. And lack of Judges knowing the breed standard <Of the two sets of shows I've gone to, I had Judges give my dogs compliments on their faults>. Don't get me wrong there are nice dogs and sometimes AKC CH or top dogs within their breed, but mainly I've seen very poor quality dobes from unreputable "breeders". I see no reason to not go and try it for fun but I see no reason to have the titles mean much of anything either. You can show dogs earlier/younger in UKC, so if you have a puppy you need practice with then I say why not, a dog who finished quickly or is altered or you just want to get out why not do it, or do more performance stuff I can see the fun in that."

[Xeph]

No Competition at "Breed" level
You will receive 10 points for a First Place in your class and 15 points for Best Male/Female.
You may also take a Best of Breed ribbon. This entitles you to go on to Group competition.

No Competition at "Breed" or "Group" Level
If you place in 1-4th in Group (4th place gets competition win, only if there are 5 or more breeds entered) you will have a competition win.
That competition win and the 25 points now count towards your dog's championship, even though your dog was the only one of its breed competing at that show.

Reserve and Best in Show
A dog that has no competition in either it's Breed Classes or the Group can still take a competition win
by going Best In Show or Reserve Best In Show, if there is competition at that level.


Read this on the UKC Forums....soooo it really does seem you can finish a dog with no competition in its breed
Group Wins at all-breed shows will also award competition points to a Best Male/Female with no competition in its breed, but a Group 4 winner is only awarded competition points if more than five breeds are being shown in group.

[gagsd]

http://res.ukcdogs.com/pdf/2011ConformationRulebook.pdf