All Pure genes GSD should be allowed in the Show Rings - Page 6 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 03-21-2010, 10:25 PM   #51 (permalink)
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"We don't need no stinkin standard!"......"Standard what???"....certainly not for size, temperament & form......breed em' all! I say!!
Make sure you take the topics off about breeder references also, and the rescues, health topics, advice topics..etc...etc......after all, WHY would it matter WHO breeds?....if it doesn't matter WHAT they breed...?!
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:35 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Bear in mind that the dilute gene is completely separate from the white masking gene that makes a WGSD white - any color can carry it, it's not just a white thing.

Please explain what health issues would be introduced by allowing the white coated GSD to show in AKC sanctioned shows? As far as I know the WGSD has no more, nor any less, health issues than their colored brothers and sisters who haven't seen a white masking gene in generations.
Obviously, the white and dilute genes are not the same. However, many of the white GSDs do lack pigment - some end up with light pigment on their noses and some around their eyes. It is harder to select for pure white coats and strong pigmentation. For example at any given show, you will see a good number of Samoyeds in the grooming area having a product applied to their nose to make it black.

One of original reasons for white being a DQ was likely because it was observed in other breeds to be associated with deafness or other issues. While time has shown that is not the case with GSDs, it would make sense for the breeders back then to be cautious about allowing white. And also white is not a traditionally desirable color for herding breeds.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:36 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Obviously, the white and dilute genes are not the same. However, many of the white GSDs do lack pigment - some end up with light pigment on their noses and some around their eyes. It is harder to select for pure white coats and strong pigmentation. For example at any given show, you will see a good number of Samoyeds in the grooming area having a product applied to their nose to make it black.

One of original reasons for white being a DQ was likely because it was observed in other breeds to be associated with deafness or other issues. While time has shown that is not the case with GSDs, it would make sense for the breeders back then to be cautious about allowing white. And also white is not a traditionally desirable color for herding breeds.

yea it is.they use it to distract wolves from eating their sheep.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:38 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I heard that the WGSDs were considered American Shepherds or were made in Ameriaca, not German Shepherds, because the "real" German Shepherds weren't and cannot be white.

Thats what I heard, Idk if its true or not.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:42 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I heard that the WGSDs were considered American Shepherds or were made in Ameriaca, not German Shepherds, because the "real" German Shepherds weren't and cannot be white.

Thats what I heard, Idk if its true or not.
No, it's not true. The WGSDs came from the same lines as all the GSDs. But the Germans have probably bred the white masking gene out of their lines over the years.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:04 PM   #56 (permalink)
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"We don't need no stinkin standard!"......"Standard what???"....certainly not for size, temperament & form......breed em' all! I say!!
Make sure you take the topics off about breeder references also, and the rescues, health topics, advice topics..etc...etc......after all, WHY would it matter WHO breeds?....if it doesn't matter WHAT they breed...?!
Regardless of the standard people are free to breed whatever they personally want to breed. And without a doubt they do.

Regardless of what the standard says, people can find breeders of really big GSDs, somewhat big GSDs, fluffy GSDs, chocolate GSDs, blue GSDs, white GSDs, blonde GSDs, black GSDs, red GSDs, silver GSDs, B&T GSDs, B&R GSDs, bi-color GSDs, sable GSDs, working GSDs, show GSDs, pet GSDs, trademarked RinTinTin GSDs, "guaranteed" GSDs, crazy high drive GSDs, docile GSDs, balanced GSDs or many combinations of these things.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:43 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Breed on! Welcome all!.....I've come to learn to agree with the best of em"....breed away!
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:55 PM   #58 (permalink)
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They can certainly all breed whatever they like. Have their own "standard". Create their own vision. Ride on the coat tails of better breeding using the good name of the breed too!

I am not buying it though. Not philosophically, not intellectually and certainly not monetarily.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:05 AM   #59 (permalink)
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They can certainly all breed whatever they like. Have their own "standard". Create their own vision. Ride on the coat tails of better breeding using the good name of the breed too!

I am not buying it though. Not philosophically, not intellectually and certainly not monetarily.
No one has to. But it also may not be such a bad thing. As I recently mentioned in other threads, so many "types" within the breed is not a bad thing as far as diversity is concerned. At this point if a major bottleneck or widespread health issue (as in a health issue in which all dogs were affected or carrying it) occured in one segment of the GSD population, it would likely not affect the breed as a whole and would allow multiple easy options for outcrossing and still maintaining registerable dogs, often from known and health tested lines. Along the same lines, it would be a shame for the segments to branch off into separate breeds. Such a move would seem to be bad for the genetic diversity of both - removing a percentage of the GSD population from the gene pool and the "new breed" which would have a small, limited gene pool. Once a breed is separated breeds, the chance for outcrossing between the two is generally lost for good if one wants to maintain registerable dogs.

Last edited by AgileGSD; 03-22-2010 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:14 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Yes, they would have to open the stud books then. It has been done in some breeds.

I do understand the idea of some genetic isolation in the hopes of eventual preservation though.

I wonder why the JRTCA does not see the wisdom of this? They keep tight control on breeding to the standard. Their dogs are not registrable as the breed until at least year a year old and subsequently passing basic standard criteria? I actually kind of like their idea. The puppy is not registrable as the breed by birthright but rather by birthright and standard criteria.

Last edited by Samba; 03-22-2010 at 12:19 AM.
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