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-   -   Worried, Brothers, Raw Diet, Please interpret these scores, good or bad.. ? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/show-those-hips/378369-worried-brothers-raw-diet-please-interpret-these-scores-good-bad.html)

lone Ranger 12-08-2013 08:51 PM

Worried, Brothers, Raw Diet, Please interpret these scores, good or bad.. ?
 
Hello Fellow GSD Lovers... :wub:

Ali and Caesar, two Brothers, Black Working Dog GSDs, x-rays at 12 months.. Here are the scores, I am a bit worried, because I did throw the ball quite a bit and walked them quite a bit, and did not restrict their exercise as much as the Breeder wanted... I did however not let them jump into the truck, I built them an alloy ramp.. And I did not let them jog along with the horses much, or have too much repetitive exercise..

Please tell me if these are good or not so good on a 1-10 basis, (I am a bit worried) my plans were to use one as Stud Dog for a litter with a Von Forell bloodline PPD dog Bitch Shaka... (one litter, one day no rush) The Boys are about 27" tall, growth retarded on RAW Diet, medium lean at 40 kg, could use about 5-8 kg more in muscle now that I can exercise them a bit more.. So how did I do? Don't pull your punches, if the scores are bad I won't breed them... :wub:

This is a Formal Grading Sheet, endorsed by the Australian National Kennel Council and the Australian Veterinary Association... In case it is not the same as yours, I have put in the technical Latin Medical Anatomy terms...

Sorry but: Nice neat columns did not work on this Post... scores are Caesar right,left Ali right, left
HIPS
Caesar /Ali
R ,L /R ,L

Norberg Angle 2 ,0 / 1, 1
Subluxation 2, 1 / 1 ,3
Cranial actabular edge 0 ,0 /1 ,2
Dorsal acetabular edge 0 ,0 /0 ,0
Cranial effect actabular rim 0 ,0 /0 ,0
Acetabular fossa 0, 0 /0, 0
Caudal acetuabular edge 0 ,0 /0, 1
Femoral head/neck exostosis 0, 0/ 0, 0
Femoral head recontouring 0, 0 /0, 0

Total Caesar 5 , Ali 10 (Max Possible 106)

Elbows
Caesar 0 ,0 Ali 0, 1 ( 2mm)

How did we do? Thank you in advance,
WGSD Lover in Australia, lone Ranger (Dances with Wolves).....:hug:

gsdsar 12-08-2013 09:04 PM

I don't really know about how they are scored, but it's one if 2 things.

Extremely good, both under 10% of total allowed, or Extremely bad, fir the same reason. I think some registries are like this in Europe and the lower the number the better.


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lone Ranger 12-08-2013 09:39 PM

Thank you Gsdsar,

I know it is lower the better here in Oz... I seem to remember something about 10, but I do not remember if 10 was the max limit to breed to or if 10 was the Breed Standard and anything less was exceptionally good?

I know it is the lower the score the better, but Caesar at a 5 and Ali at a 10 total hip score, does that make him a bad score, or average or a good score...?

If it is too hard as not your same system, I will wait to find someone here in Oz to interpret... Kind regards, lone Ranger

gsdsar 12-08-2013 09:50 PM

A quick search and I found that they recommend only breeding dogs with a hip score of less than 10. The average score for GSD is 13. So the brother with the 10 would not be the first choice to breed but not unacceptable as he is technically better than average.

When thinking about breeding you need to consider a lot more than hip scores. So if this boy has average hips, but fantastic temperament, drive, biddability, and his other relatives(littermates, mom,dad,aunts uncles, gparents, ) all have good hips, then you can consider using him.

I would also check his elbows.


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lone Ranger 12-08-2013 10:00 PM

Caesar that has the better total hip score of R/L 4,1 was Elbow score of 0,1 (2mm)

Wolf Ali that has the total Hip score of R/L 3,7 has Elbow score of 0,0

If that is the way you read it, I really am only guessing...

I have not decided which temperament is better to breed, as I don't know which I would like yet. Caesar is higher drive, dominant, tough watch dog.. Ali is hardly a barker, easy going, more of a Family pet dog.. But this may be because he lets Caesar do the work..

Any help is appreciated..

carmspack 12-08-2013 10:13 PM

ask your breeder for an interpretation of your scores, or von Forell unless they are one and the same .

lone Ranger 12-08-2013 10:26 PM

Thanks Carmen,
I just could not wait..

My Breeder is in the U.S. at the NRHA Reining Horse Futurity.... Won't be home for a week. :confused:

And I have no dealings with the Von Forell mob.. The Bitch Shaka's Mother was a Von Forell Bitch x Award winning PPD Dog... A Police Officer in Brisbane that worked with them was given the Von Forell Bitch when he left VF, and I was lucky enough to get the Pick Bitch Shaka. She will not have Hip and Elbow scoring for a few months.

Von Forell would not know me from a pinch of salt. :cool:

lone Ranger 12-14-2013 03:13 PM

Hello Friends, fellow GSD Lovers.. :wub:

A courtesy follow up, for those that tried to help me as I was worried..

On our Australian version of AKC for GSDs, and the Australian Veterinarian Association, out of the 106 possible on the scale the Breed Standard that everyone wants to aim for is a score of 13. You get a License to Breed and Register them with any score less than 25...

As it turns out the score of 10 is better than the Breed Standards, and the score of 5 is exceptionally good. The one elbow score of 1, (2mm) is a nothing of an issue.

Caesar is the Classic Black Working Dog GSD, my Breed Select, Alpha Dog, with a score of 5, he will probably be my Stud Dog...

Kind regards from Australia, lone Ranger, out with horses and WDGSDs doing "Dances with Wolves" close as possible..

Harry and Lola 12-14-2013 03:42 PM

The breed average for hip score in Australia for GSDs is 13.07. Both Caesar and Ali are within this, however Ali is quite high at 10 so you might want to reconsider using him as a stud.

My Lola has HD and to give you an idea of a bad score - here is hers:-

Norberg Angle 3.4
Subluxation 4.4
Cranial actabular edge 1.1
Dorsal acetabular edge 0.1
Cranial effect actabular rim 3.3
Acetabular fossa 1.1
Caudal acetuabular edge 2.3
Femoral head/neck exostosis 2.2
Femoral head recontouring 2.2
sub total 18/21
Total 39


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