Been thinking about chiropractic...

[LisaT]

Been thinking about Kramer's experiences with the chiropractor, and his subsequent fall.

In general, been thinking about chiropractic and seniors, including human seniors. My folks have prompted these thoughts, and Jean's recent post about Kramer in a health thread made me think about the dogs.

Jean, I hope you don't completely regret taking Kramer in, I would feel bad. I feel bad that he didn't get the relief from it that I hoped he would.

My mom has developed osteoporosis, and it's been interesting to watch our chiropractor adjust what he does as we find out more about her condition. (Mom and I go in and get adjusted together by the same chiro.)

My Dad should have started seeing a chiropractor years ago but never has. I've wondered if, starting at a late date, is better than no care at all. Our chiro made a comment the other day that the problem with some chiro's is that, when working on adults, they worry too much about "making them straight". He concentrates on making them more mobile, working on their problem areas, accepting that the body has made compensation, etc. He's quite a wonderful chiropractor.

I am fortunate with the dogs -- we have an equally wonderful chiropractor. Often she does not "adjust" them, but mobilizes them, and as they age, I know that she will know how to modify her adjustments. Indy started getting adjustments when she was about 4 years old, about 7 years ago.

I'm curious, for those whose dogs have recieved chiropractic care, at what age did they start? For those dogs that started later, did you still see benefit?

[luanne]

I haven't taken my dogs to a Chiropractor but only because I didn't realize that there were doggie chiropractors. My trainer was telling me about her dog chiropractor and what a huge difference it made in her dogs and some other dogs in class.

Gracie will be 5 next Spring and I haven't really noticed much of a *need* for her to go but I think I'm going to take her in to get checked out next year.

Lu

[LisaT]

I know that the results are better with earlier, regular maintenance. Keeping mobility of the joints does help slowing the onset/progression arthritis and other problems from settling in.

If you end up going to one, definitely report back to us

[LJsMom]

Lady Jane started chiropractic at age 12 years 10 months. She's had 5 visits since 9/30. It's helped quite a bit. However, like Kramer, she fell down the stairs recently. Now she won't go down. I bought her a Ruff Wear Webmaster harness last week and it is just wonderful. Great for stairs and walks. LJ's next appointment is tomorrow.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Awww! Lady Jane! I didn't realize she fell down the stairs. I am really glad she likes the harness (you too).

I liked the acupuncture for him and feel that for an older dog who has never had any adjustments and has a big old fused spine or other type of ortho issue that it might be enough and be the safest way to handle things.

My human chiropractor is very cautious and also very good about explaining the limits to what she can and cannot do.

With the chiro, the vet didn't do any major adjustments that I could tell but I think that with anything when you are used to being one way, and then are another-either good or bad-the adjustments you have to make are pretty big. However, we can know that for ourselves. Ooh, I feel loose today and that feels good but I will make sure as I walk across this icy patch I will tense up.

For our dogs they don't have that kind of thought process and can't think through the idea of adjusting their movements and body, they just react and their body responds.

I think also you are dealing with muscle memory and how a dog is used to doing things, which may need to be different with the adjustments made.

So for a young dog with no major issues, just getting a tune up, who has a body that can adjust quickly to things, who doesn't have a body/movement habit ingrained, and who makes a movement mistake, they will bounce back quickly.

A senior with the same tune up who makes a movement mistake may not be able to self correct as easily and is not going to have the same resilience no matter how much good stuff we give them or do for them, no matter how active they are.

We don't!

I also think that when they feel good, they do more and that increases their likelihood of injury. Kramer felt good enough to run and jump down the stairs, even though he was being tethered for guidance. This is why the whole idea of a dog self-limiting their exercise after a surgery doesn't work and why dogs have to be crated or leashed-they don't get the concept of be careful as long as they feel good.

I do think I should have listened to his regular vet on the chiro and just gone with the acupuncture, after he got that knot out of his neck. But at the time I was going with results and not looking at the big picture-that any treatment, supplement, medication has to be broken down to see the impact in the positive and negative it can have. And that was my choice.

I still do Reiki with him as needed and watch after that too because he gets a little wound up.

I have noticed that with continued increased mandated crate rest (from none to daily) and the use of the air mattress and the harness for stairs, Kramer has increased mobility, flexibility and is (knock wood) better than he was before we went, so in the long run, having to find better solutions benefitted him greatly.

I just realize now that there is an entire thought process that has to go along with the treatment, just like a surgery, and I wasn't doing that. So I think that anytime any of these forms of treatment are suggested, that people note that they are just as serious a medical intervention, with risks and benefits, as any other. Particularly with pets with existing conditions-or conditions that may not even be known.

Or maybe Kramer is an anomaly!

[LisaT]

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN.....I just realize now that there is an entire thought process that has to go along with the treatment, just like a surgery, and I wasn't doing that. So I think that anytime any of these forms of treatment are suggested, that people note that they are just as serious a medical intervention, with risks and benefits, as any other. Particularly with pets with existing conditions-or conditions that may not even be known.

Or maybe Kramer is an anomaly!

Certainly there is no other like Kramer

Thanks Jean for the feedback.

Good point about the thought process. And I guess that was what started me thinking about this. I was thinking about my parents for awhile, and then when I saw a post recently about Kramer, it was very similar.

I think that that thought process also includes a "big picture" evaluation of not only the treatment, but how everything is fitting together. Much like you had to do coming up with these alternative methods that have helped. I'm so glad he's doing well with his routine.

Everyone here knows that I'm a huge fan of chiropractic. But like anything, it needs to be used properly, and it's good to refine the parameters, particularly on a senior board.

[LisaT]

Originally Posted By: LJsMomLady Jane started chiropractic at age 12 years 10 months. She's had 5 visits since 9/30. It's helped quite a bit. However, like Kramer, she fell down the stairs recently. Now she won't go down. I bought her a Ruff Wear Webmaster harness last week and it is just wonderful. Great for stairs and walks. LJ's next appointment is tomorrow.

Oh, I'm sorry about the fall. I swear the next house we buy has to be a one story -- I can't tell you how many times Max has fallen on our stairs, only because he is a doofus. I can't imagine how treacherous they will be as he gets older !!

Great news that the chiropractor is helping. Hope it continues!! Our K9 chiro, being a chiro for dogs and humans, doesn't do a ton of dogs, but a respectable number. I hear success stories all the time from her with senior dogs. Of course she also told me about the woman with some little 5 lb dog that told the chiro, "just show me what you did and I'll take care of her at home"....can you imagine someone with no experience trying to do that? The woman never returned.....

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Obviously I was thinking about it a lot too. Thanks for posting this!

Hopefully people can fill in their dogs' names in all these different examples.

Again, I think it did make me more aware of things, including that Kramer cannot be allowed to do as he wishes in terms of activity. Period. That I need to insist on crate rest or he will move around all day keeping track of everything until he's exhausted. No therapy will work when a dog works himself so hard-now that part of his daily job is to rest, he's much better off. I keep his Adequan appointments closer together too and that is helping.

I don't think that the chiropractic was the cause of the injury directly. And he just finished running away from me this morning repeatedly-getting almost close enough for me to grab his harness, and then turning around and taking off.

And another part of this though is the reality that I have to face-that Kramer can't turn or pivot, or even walk without some little stumbles from time to time and that is a whole problem entirely!

[LisaT]

I have to confess, people are so reluctant to use chiropractic, that I did think twice before posting this!! But it's about responsible use, and what's best for the dogs, and how every dog is different......

I"m not sure I would have clued in on that "mandatory rest" period. It makes complete sense, particularly when he's part of a pack of many!!

[WiscTiger]

There are instances with humans and Chiropractic adjustments where the patient feels worse before they feel better. My Chiro is very careful with elderly people for several reasons, fusing and the bones are more brittle than when you are younger. So just wondering if many in some conditions in dogs that they could seem/feel worse before they would get better.

Val