11 year old GSD with pano?

rebeccagrad · 05-15-2011, 11:22 AM

Hello forum - I am sorta new although many of you will remember me as cedarswarm, but it's been years. Caleb is now 11 years old, and he's been having trouble with his rear legs. It started with some lameness in one leg that got progressively worse over a period of a few days, so I took him to the vet. She took x-rays and said that he has pano. Of course my first question was "pano in an 11 year old dog?", to which my vet replied that only in GSD's can pano occur as an adult. She showed it to me on the x-ray, but I'm no vet so I'm taking her word for it. Has anyone else heard that or experienced it? I did some googling and I cannot find anyone seeing pano past like 2 years.

She put him on some pain meds, which did seem to help, and for about a week he was on the mend. But yesterday he started wobbling again in the rear, and now he is clearly uncomfortable. He won't eat, didn't want to drink. When he pees it's like his whole rear end has collapsed. He has that kind of internally focused/preoccupied thing you see when stoic dogs are uncomfortable. I'm just not sure what to do, if I should take him to the ER today or wait and just call my vet tomorrow, see what she says.

Any suggestions or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

rebeccagrad · 05-15-2011, 11:24 AM

and this is my sweet boy recently

TheNamesNelson · 05-15-2011, 11:46 AM

Pano is a growth disorder in the long bones of the legs. It occurs when a dog is still growing and their growth plates are not closed to my knowledge dealing with my pup with Pano. Also when my pup suffers from Pano in his rear legs he does NOT get wobbly ever, its simply painful for him to walk and he limps a little, and if anything he is more stiff on his rear legs rather than wobbly.

If your dog is 11 years old and getting wobbly in the rear it sounds like Canine Degenerative Myelopathy . I have experience with this disease as well, my parents 12 year old GSD has it and it wasn't really noticeable until he became wobbly in the rear end. There were some earlier warning signs like his back nails dragging slightly that caused some wear on the tops, but those could have gone mostly unnoticed until the wobbling came.

I would let him rest and wait until Monday, then call around and find a different vet who is knowledgeable on Canine Degenerative Myelopathy and ask if they could see your dog immediately.

Best wishes!

rebeccagrad · 05-15-2011, 12:32 PM

Thanks for your quick response! I'm familiar with DM, and asked the vet about it prior to X-Ray as that was my immediate concern. But she said it doesn't look like DM at all. She was also worried it was cancer, but there was no sign of that either. The wobbly rear end does concern me but he seems to be resting comfortably right now. I'm still curious if anyone has heard of pano occurring in such a senior dog. She was thinking that it could be happening because of excess calcium in his diet as a result of the raw I feed. I'm unable to modify his diet, however, because he has EPI and the raw diet is what's keeping him alive. I've been giving a higher percentage of muscle meat in the last 2 weeks but it's gotten bad again. Sigh. I just feel for him and wish I knew what was going on.

CaliBoy · 05-15-2011, 12:36 PM

With Degenerative Myelopathy, they are usually not in pain, because of the progressive paralysis from the back legs on. It sounds like the poor thing is in pain and is uncomfortable, so I'm thinking it would be different than DM.

Elaine · 05-15-2011, 12:41 PM

If the vet is seeing changes in the bone of some sort, I would wonder if this isn't the beginning of osteosarc. Your dog is the right age. But if both legs are affected, I would be looking at something wrong in the spine. Call the vet. Ok, call a different vet as adult dogs do not get pano.

arycrest · 05-15-2011, 03:43 PM

I've only heard of one adult GSD (or any breed for that matter) who had Pano. Joel was 7 when I met him and had been treated for a chronic Pano condition since he was a pup.

If the vet's treatment is working, that's great. But if your dog is still having difficulty I'd get a second opinion.

Zoeys mom · 05-15-2011, 03:49 PM

Not pano it's ONLY a growing disorder. Arthritis, HD, pinched spinal nerves, and other aging disorders should be ruled out, but pano...not a chance.

**JakodaCD OA** · 05-15-2011, 04:54 PM

did the vet xray his spine?

TheNamesNelson · 05-15-2011, 05:33 PM

My parents dog with DM looks uncomfortable at time and he doesnt have the same appetite. DM isnt painful but its frustrating and mentally exhausting for the dog because they cannot do so many things they want to and could do before. Does your dog cry out in pain?

Also, I don't buy pano in older adults who are done growing, also your vets opinion that pano only happens in adult GSDs further concerns me. Pano is a growing disorder, if it was at all possible to get as an adult why would it also be breed restrictive? Being contractible at an adult age seems fishy enough, only in GSDs just makes it an outrageous sounding claim.

05-15-2011, 11:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
rebeccagrad New Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 4	11 year old GSD with pano? Hello forum - I am sorta new although many of you will remember me as cedarswarm, but it's been years. Caleb is now 11 years old, and he's been having trouble with his rear legs. It started with some lameness in one leg that got progressively worse over a period of a few days, so I took him to the vet. She took x-rays and said that he has pano. Of course my first question was "pano in an 11 year old dog?", to which my vet replied that only in GSD's can pano occur as an adult. She showed it to me on the x-ray, but I'm no vet so I'm taking her word for it. Has anyone else heard that or experienced it? I did some googling and I cannot find anyone seeing pano past like 2 years. She put him on some pain meds, which did seem to help, and for about a week he was on the mend. But yesterday he started wobbling again in the rear, and now he is clearly uncomfortable. He won't eat, didn't want to drink. When he pees it's like his whole rear end has collapsed. He has that kind of internally focused/preoccupied thing you see when stoic dogs are uncomfortable. I'm just not sure what to do, if I should take him to the ER today or wait and just call my vet tomorrow, see what she says. Any suggestions or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

05-15-2011, 12:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Elaine Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,785	If the vet is seeing changes in the bone of some sort, I would wonder if this isn't the beginning of osteosarc. Your dog is the right age. But if both legs are affected, I would be looking at something wrong in the spine. Call the vet. Ok, call a different vet as adult dogs do not get pano. __________________ Elaine and the herd

05-15-2011, 03:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
arycrest Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 8,092	I've only heard of one adult GSD (or any breed for that matter) who had Pano. Joel was 7 when I met him and had been treated for a chronic Pano condition since he was a pup. If the vet's treatment is working, that's great. But if your dog is still having difficulty I'd get a second opinion. __________________ Gayle & the Hooligans Mac, Slider, Bruiser, & Faith MY BRIDGE KIDS: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, & Honey The Hooligans Photo Albums!

05-15-2011, 04:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
JakodaCD OA Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: Old Lyme, CT USA Posts: 14,237	did the vet xray his spine? __________________ Diane Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi "Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC "Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC Jakoda's Jagged Edge

05-15-2011, 11:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
rebeccagrad New Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 4	and this is my sweet boy recently

05-15-2011, 11:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
TheNamesNelson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 207	Pano is a growth disorder in the long bones of the legs. It occurs when a dog is still growing and their growth plates are not closed to my knowledge dealing with my pup with Pano. Also when my pup suffers from Pano in his rear legs he does NOT get wobbly ever, its simply painful for him to walk and he limps a little, and if anything he is more stiff on his rear legs rather than wobbly. If your dog is 11 years old and getting wobbly in the rear it sounds like Canine Degenerative Myelopathy . I have experience with this disease as well, my parents 12 year old GSD has it and it wasn't really noticeable until he became wobbly in the rear end. There were some earlier warning signs like his back nails dragging slightly that caused some wear on the tops, but those could have gone mostly unnoticed until the wobbling came. I would let him rest and wait until Monday, then call around and find a different vet who is knowledgeable on Canine Degenerative Myelopathy and ask if they could see your dog immediately. Best wishes!

05-15-2011, 12:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
rebeccagrad New Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 4	Thanks for your quick response! I'm familiar with DM, and asked the vet about it prior to X-Ray as that was my immediate concern. But she said it doesn't look like DM at all. She was also worried it was cancer, but there was no sign of that either. The wobbly rear end does concern me but he seems to be resting comfortably right now. I'm still curious if anyone has heard of pano occurring in such a senior dog. She was thinking that it could be happening because of excess calcium in his diet as a result of the raw I feed. I'm unable to modify his diet, however, because he has EPI and the raw diet is what's keeping him alive. I've been giving a higher percentage of muscle meat in the last 2 weeks but it's gotten bad again. Sigh. I just feel for him and wish I knew what was going on.

05-15-2011, 12:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
CaliBoy Master Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California Posts: 561	With Degenerative Myelopathy, they are usually not in pain, because of the progressive paralysis from the back legs on. It sounds like the poor thing is in pain and is uncomfortable, so I'm thinking it would be different than DM.

05-15-2011, 03:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Zoeys mom Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Rockville, Md Posts: 2,941	Not pano it's ONLY a growing disorder. Arthritis, HD, pinched spinal nerves, and other aging disorders should be ruled out, but pano...not a chance.

05-15-2011, 05:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
TheNamesNelson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 207	My parents dog with DM looks uncomfortable at time and he doesnt have the same appetite. DM isnt painful but its frustrating and mentally exhausting for the dog because they cannot do so many things they want to and could do before. Does your dog cry out in pain? Also, I don't buy pano in older adults who are done growing, also your vets opinion that pano only happens in adult GSDs further concerns me. Pano is a growing disorder, if it was at all possible to get as an adult why would it also be breed restrictive? Being contractible at an adult age seems fishy enough, only in GSDs just makes it an outrageous sounding claim.

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