SWGDOG Major Bummer

**jocoyn** · 01-09-2008, 05:43 PM

I just read the SWGDOG Guidelines for search and rescue ........

and they have no acknowledgement of scent discriminating air scent dog.......it is strictly non scent discriminatory.

Well, our team air scent dogs do require dogs to be able to grid an area with our without a scent article (we make them do it both ways) so I guess that is just above and beyond whatever certification testing will be since SWGDOG guidelines are to be used by certifying agencies.

But it still stinks

k9sarneko · 01-09-2008, 10:39 PM

Well nancy, we can live in hope that it will be generally acknowledged that scent discrimination is useful in air scent too. It may just take a while to convince all our trailing buddies that you don't have to be attatched to a leash to use a scent article. More and more SAR units are coming around to this way of thinking though, especially as more and more area's are getting more populated or used for recreation.

**Amaruq** · 01-10-2008, 01:52 AM

I cant believe after all this time (I have been out of SAR now for about 4 years) that people still don't see that having a scent discriminating airscent dog really makes sense and can save a heck of a lot of time on a real search. Phoenix could work trailing or airscent with or without a scent article. Tika was also trained in airscenting and was also trained to work with or without a scent article.

**jocoyn** · 01-10-2008, 06:42 AM

The thing that really bothers me is that the SWGDOG will be used by certifying agencies to set the testing protocols.

Well, certification is only a test...................I think since most people who do discrimination require them to work with or without a scent article will allow them to pass the "test" without and still work their dogs with the article.

**jocoyn** · 01-10-2008, 10:12 AM

You see my concern

As of now, NASAR Has a scent discrimination air scent test* but SWGDOG is to set the standards certifying agencies use to develop testing.................

You can chose scent disc or not air scent at the Canine SAR II level not sure why not at the III or I level?

k9sarneko · 01-10-2008, 08:03 PM

I agree with you, I think that Canine SAR III should be optional for scent article or no scent article. I would like to see Canine SAR II and SAR I to have a scent discriminating section added to it. I think that in this day of SAR scent discriminating area search dogs are more and more utilized and all area search dogs should be able to work with or without article. I know that it is not needed in a true wilderness area but how many of these areas do we have left? The time and energy saved using an article so that the dog can eliminate other foot traffic from the search is well worth the extra time it takes to teach handler and dog. I was amazed how quickly the dogs all adapted to scent articles. Also when utilizing a scent article then subject article location and alert can be added. I have just really started working with article searches but I really believe that a k9 identifying a subjects article and alerting handler to it can further assist in any search.

**DFrost** · 01-13-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Nancy JYou see my concern

As of now, NASAR Has a scent discrimination air scent test* but SWGDOG is to set the standards certifying agencies use to develop testing.................

You can chose scent disc or not air scent at the Canine SAR II level not sure why not at the III or I level?

Did you write your concerns to the standards proposed? I check the SWGDog website frequently. When they post anything new it is for review and public comment. I've made commments several times. They've always aknowledged the receipt of my comments. So at least they do read them. While I don't think SWGdog is perfect by any stretch of the imagination, I certainly applaud them for their efforts. Standardization is something that is long overdue in the police and SAR areas of working dogs.

DFrost

**jocoyn** · 01-13-2008, 01:40 PM

Actually, yes, and within the timeframes ........ never got a response other than an acknowledgement of receipt

I also sent a question and am waiting for response as to whether or not anything else will be posted.

I am fully in support of the effort to standardize and SWGDOGs mission

A Rebmann reminded me that they are "not done" with the SWGDOG standards -- I posted on his and Marcia's group and numerous people from all over the country indicated they also trained and deployed dogs in this fashion.

DreamWalker · 08-09-2009, 10:22 PM

SWGDOG is a constant review and data collection. Hopefully they will see your point and realize changes should be made or exceptions.
I don't see their true purpose other than showing a science behind scent theory so that we can be protected in court, having proof and explanation for why our dogs do what they do.

01-09-2008, 05:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
jocoyn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 8,052	SWGDOG Major Bummer I just read the SWGDOG Guidelines for search and rescue ........ and they have no acknowledgement of scent discriminating air scent dog.......it is strictly non scent discriminatory. Well, our team air scent dogs do require dogs to be able to grid an area with our without a scent article (we make them do it both ways) so I guess that is just above and beyond whatever certification testing will be since SWGDOG guidelines are to be used by certifying agencies. But it still stinks __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Grim (Grimmy Bear) & Beau (Bo-dee man) Waiting at the Bridge: Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

01-09-2008, 10:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
k9sarneko Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,577	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer Well nancy, we can live in hope that it will be generally acknowledged that scent discrimination is useful in air scent too. It may just take a while to convince all our trailing buddies that you don't have to be attatched to a leash to use a scent article. More and more SAR units are coming around to this way of thinking though, especially as more and more area's are getting more populated or used for recreation. __________________ Sharon, Mom to SAR GSD's Lexi CGC (Cert. area search) Neko CGC (Cert. HRD) Justice CGC (trailing), BOLO, Bloodhound CGC(trailing) Titan, Shilo Shepherd (beginning area search) Kibby(Rodie mix) Lil Bear and Izzy and Louie(Pom's)

01-10-2008, 01:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
Amaruq Moderator who has gone to the dogs Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Where I don't wanna be-NW PA Posts: 14,645	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer I cant believe after all this time (I have been out of SAR now for about 4 years) that people still don't see that having a scent discriminating airscent dog really makes sense and can save a heck of a lot of time on a real search. Phoenix could work trailing or airscent with or without a scent article. Tika was also trained in airscenting and was also trained to work with or without a scent article. __________________ Ruq Paq Lakota, Chimo, Tika, Rayne, Kanuck, Jethro and Keyzah My Angels forever in my heart and watching over us: Phoenix 9/07 Kaylee Cheyenne 5/09

01-10-2008, 06:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
jocoyn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 8,052	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer The thing that really bothers me is that the SWGDOG will be used by certifying agencies to set the testing protocols. Well, certification is only a test...................I think since most people who do discrimination require them to work with or without a scent article will allow them to pass the "test" without and still work their dogs with the article. __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Grim (Grimmy Bear) & Beau (Bo-dee man) Waiting at the Bridge: Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

01-10-2008, 10:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
jocoyn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 8,052	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer You see my concern As of now, NASAR Has a scent discrimination air scent test* but SWGDOG is to set the standards certifying agencies use to develop testing................. You can chose scent disc or not air scent at the Canine SAR II level not sure why not at the III or I level? __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Grim (Grimmy Bear) & Beau (Bo-dee man) Waiting at the Bridge: Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

01-10-2008, 08:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
k9sarneko Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,577	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer I agree with you, I think that Canine SAR III should be optional for scent article or no scent article. I would like to see Canine SAR II and SAR I to have a scent discriminating section added to it. I think that in this day of SAR scent discriminating area search dogs are more and more utilized and all area search dogs should be able to work with or without article. I know that it is not needed in a true wilderness area but how many of these areas do we have left? The time and energy saved using an article so that the dog can eliminate other foot traffic from the search is well worth the extra time it takes to teach handler and dog. I was amazed how quickly the dogs all adapted to scent articles. Also when utilizing a scent article then subject article location and alert can be added. I have just really started working with article searches but I really believe that a k9 identifying a subjects article and alerting handler to it can further assist in any search. __________________ Sharon, Mom to SAR GSD's Lexi CGC (Cert. area search) Neko CGC (Cert. HRD) Justice CGC (trailing), BOLO, Bloodhound CGC(trailing) Titan, Shilo Shepherd (beginning area search) Kibby(Rodie mix) Lil Bear and Izzy and Louie(Pom's)

01-13-2008, 01:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
jocoyn Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 8,052	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer Actually, yes, and within the timeframes ........ never got a response other than an acknowledgement of receipt I also sent a question and am waiting for response as to whether or not anything else will be posted. I am fully in support of the effort to standardize and SWGDOGs mission A Rebmann reminded me that they are "not done" with the SWGDOG standards -- I posted on his and Marcia's group and numerous people from all over the country indicated they also trained and deployed dogs in this fashion. __________________ Nancy www.scsarda.org Grim (Grimmy Bear) & Beau (Bo-dee man) Waiting at the Bridge: Cyra, Toby, Rainbow, Linus, Oscar, Arlo & Waggles

08-09-2009, 10:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
DreamWalker New Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2	Re: SWGDOG Major Bummer SWGDOG is a constant review and data collection. Hopefully they will see your point and realize changes should be made or exceptions. I don't see their true purpose other than showing a science behind scent theory so that we can be protected in court, having proof and explanation for why our dogs do what they do.

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