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Old 11-26-2012, 10:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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The IRO RH is a dogsport and not adopted over here by many teams (including FEMA I think) as a viable certification for any deployable dogs. I don't know if it is or is not in Canada. There is a lot good about it and I think it would be a feather in the cap of someone with an air scent dog (mainly for a non scent specific air scent dog, certainly not for a cadaver dog or a trailing dog-and the leadership of the IRO does not even really believe trailing "works" and push footstep tracking only
)

It isn't just a sport.
I am getting so sick and tired of statements like that. IRO is NOT just a sport. It is the INTERNATIONAL RESCUE DOG ORGANIZATION!
Is there a sport? Yes! But most importantly the IRO educates, trains and certifies, GLOBALLY, Search and Rescue dogs. There is MUCH more to the IRO than you make it sound like! So I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss the IRO.


Mission Readiness Test: IRO - Internationale Rettungshunde Organisation
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Mission Readiness Test (MRT)
For preparation and safe-keeping of sending only highest qualified teams into international deployment, the IRO holds the so called IRO Mission Readiness Test whose positive results are confirmed by the IRO Mission Certificate. The evaluation of the different tasks is supported by a program also used by REDOG Switzerland, AFDRU (Austrian Forces Disaster Relief Unit) and as well by the Austrian Red Cross.

The MRT takes place on two days in two groups. The number of participants is limited to 36 doghandlers and 12 dog leaders. The dog leader leeds the search group, which consists of at least 3 search dog teams (rescue dog handler and rescue dog).

The precondition for the participation of the IRO MRT is the proof of a positive passed test of the level RH-T B (Rubble B) according to IPO-R (International Testing Rules and Regulations), judged by an FCI/IRO judge. For participants of INSARAG USAR Teams a proof of the respective national standard is required.

Within the MRT practical and theoretical tasks have to be managed. The teams have to behave in the way as if they would come to a foreign country for humanitarian support which means that they have to do the compulsory registration in the country concerned, consider the local habit and be completely on their own from the arrival to the departure. They have to care for their food and emergency care and have their own equipment with them. Of course they have to have certain knowledge and possibilities for the locating on difficult positions and for the first aid of found and injured person. The shape of dog and doghandler also plays an essential role for the durance of the MRT.

IRO Mission Readiness Test 2012 in Zatec (CZ) from 31.10. - 04.11.2012
Maybe read some of their Mission Reports and then go ahead and say again that IRO is "just" a sport!
Mission reports: IRO - Internationale Rettungshunde Organisation

Last edited by Mrs.K; 11-26-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I think that Nancy's point is that it IS a sport currently in the US. I'm not aware of any teams who have adopted the RH as the test to get someone certified. So if Angel went and did it on her own, it would be nothing more than a fun title to have, not something that would make her part of an operational team.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Yes my statement was in regards to the US and there are some issues which make it no so attractive to non GSD people and trailing and cadaver people plus it does not mesh with the NIMS standards.

I think the test looks like a good supplement but we sure won't field someone who has not passed an 80-120 acre day test and a 40 acre night test. Most teams have a 40 acre as rock bottom minimum and IRO does not touch that. Like I said I think there is some good stuff there but .......... and maybe FEMA and IRO should talk but for the average wilderness dog......meh

----------

From what I understand from some European SAR handlers, trailing is an oddity over there and folks like Kevin Kocher are going over and changing paradigms and they want to do trailing but the IRO has no use or interest in pursuing. And if there is anything for cadaver let me know because I would be glad to push my dog through IRO but *NOT* if it means he has to find a live person, follow a track, or tow a boat by a rope or ride on a surfboard. NOT practical.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:29 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GSDElsa View Post
I think that Nancy's point is that it IS a sport currently in the US. I'm not aware of any teams who have adopted the RH as the test to get someone certified. So if Angel went and did it on her own, it would be nothing more than a fun title to have, not something that would make her part of an operational team.
There is an RH team right here in NY and I'm not talking about your old team, it's a team located in the Adirondacks.

And then there is the Search Dog Organization of North America which is rather new and working with IRO Standard and an actual member of the IRO if I'm not mistaken.
Home Page - Search Dog Organization of North America

So whether "we" like it or not. The IRO shouldn't be disregarded. It is coming to the US and it was only a matter of time anyways.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 11-26-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:40 AM   #25 (permalink)
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From what I understand from some European SAR handlers, trailing is an oddity over there and folks like Kevin Kocher are going over and changing paradigms and they want to do trailing but the IRO has no use or interest in pursuing. And if there is anything for cadaver let me know because I would be glad to push my dog through IRO but *NOT* if it means he has to find a live person, follow a track, or tow a boat by a rope or ride on a surfboard. NOT practical.
Not true. You wouldn't believe how popular Mantrailing is in Germany and Austria. I am following the Mantrailing Academy Austria, especially Karina Kalks is a big name over in Austria and Germany.
Mantrailing Academy Austria
She is doing it with Weimaraner.

And here is the Suchhundezentrum of Germany, Austria and Switzerland
http://www.suchhunde-zentrum.de/
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Then they need to become NIMS compliant and their standards need to lockstep with SWGDOG --- FWIW, none of those reports (5 searches, 4 deployments since 2009) mentioned any live finds and the HR finds mentioned were with non IRO dogs.

The LE and SAR community need to concern themselves about what is best for locating the victim not whether to dance with some international disaster standard, particularly for single person wilderness events.

I don't dislike it but I think most legitimate SAR teams and dispatching LE are not impressed at this point in time. We have a lot of NAPWDA membership down here and that is who we cert to. THey were involved in NIMS and SWGDOG as well.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:49 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mrs.K View Post
Not true. You wouldn't believe how popular Mantrailing is in Germany and Austria. I am following the Mantrailing Academy Austria, especially Karina Kalks is a big name over in Austria and Germany.
Mantrailing Academy Austria
She is doing it with Weimaraner.

And here is the Suchhundezentrum of Germany, Austria and Switzerland
offizielle Website - K-9 Suchhundezentrum Headquarter
Yest but is it not true that the IRO has dismissed mantrailing? Much the interested folks have learned is from American Trailing experts!!

At least that is the buzz I get on the SAR board I am on and Bill Dotson as well as several Europeans are on the forum. [you need to be documented as on a team and invited to participate]
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:50 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Then they need to become NIMS compliant and their standards need to lockstep with SWGDOG --- FWIW, none of those reports (5 searches, 4 deployments since 2009) mentioned any live finds and the HR finds mentioned were with non IRO dogs.

The LE and SAR community need to concern themselves about what is best for locating the victim not whether to dance with some international disaster standard, particularly for single person wilderness events.

I don't dislike it but I think most legitimate SAR teams and dispatching LE are not impressed at this point in time. We have a lot of NAPWDA membership down here and that is who we cert to. THey were involved in NIMS and SWGDOG as well.
Do you really think that is all deployments they had in the past years? IRO is all over Germany, all over Austria, all over Switzerland. Not every deployment, of every single team will have a mission report posted on the IRO Website. And they are not as sensation hungry as people in the US and who cares if they post HR/Live or whatever find they had on their website. This is not about the finds themselves.

If they are so not impressed why are they calling the IRO over to the US to hold Seminars all the time? From California, to NY, to Canada. They are holding Seminars all over the world. Thailand, UK, Ukraine...

The IRO is much bigger than any of the US organizations ever will be. It is an Umbrella Organisation for 112 national SAR Teams of 39 different countries. And their success proofs them right.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:52 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Oh, and this one is a member of the IRO as well, it's the one I was talking about earlier. It's not a NY but an NH team.
Canine Alert Search Teams, Peterborough, NH

Here is a whole list of their members. Do yolu really think anyone would join them if they weren't successful in what they are doing?
http://www.iro-dogs.org/de/ueber-uns/mitglieder.html

Last edited by Mrs.K; 11-26-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:00 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Sandra, ok.......the thread has gone of track.........YOU were the one that pointed to the "mission reports' and I followed the links.

My repsonse to the OP was that an IRO cert will not make you a deployable resource for most agencies. That is true!

Most teams could care less about the IRO because it does not seem to meet real world needs for wilderness SAR. Since I am not on a disaster team, I really cannot speak to disaster ops with any more credibility than you can to wilderness operations.

That does not mean the elements it tests are invalid or that there is no value added and maybe things to incorporate. I doubt Europe will "bully" the US into using its standards. If FEMA and SUSAR dogs become IRO then the wilderness community will need to take the bull by the horns.


EVERYTHING I read IRO seems to be related to disaster. Any response I make must be colored as being viewed by someone looking through wilderness goggles! Which is why I never make comments about USAR ....... or even SUSAR.
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Last edited by jocoyn; 11-26-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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