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Is it worth it??

5K views 38 replies 17 participants last post by  ploss 
#1 ·
I know that people train their dogs in this type of sport for fun, competition, or just to have protection. This is something I would want to do with Troy down the road.
My question is, has there ever been a time where you or someone you know had to tell their dog to attack/protect them in a harmful situation?
I'd very curious to learn how many people this has happened to.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Most IPO dogs if you take the left arm away won't bite. They run up don't see their target and go straight into a bark and hold. Whether or not the sleeve is present doesn't even matter. You see the same issue with PSA dogs trained to go for left arm bicep. Take the target away and they don't bite at all. A French ring or mondioring dog with proper targeting work and a civil streak WILL nail you without the suit being on if you agitate them and from there getting them to bite you passive isn't hard.

Great IPO dogs can easily be taught to go for other targets and bite civil. It's just a matter of a little extra training. Doesn't mean they stick it out in a fight but you can definitely get great solid nerves dogs to at least make someone bleed.
 
#31 ·
Saw a trial in Maryland a few months ago with a bunch of PSA 3 dogs and IPO 3 dogs trying to get a MR 1 where the decoy did nothing on the face attack but present the left arm and as the dog was coming pull the left arm behind his back and dropped a weak right arm stick barrage. He held all but one dog doing it.
 
#32 ·
Just a pro tip while I'm thinking about it. If you ever have a dog and thinking about doing multiple dog bite sports and any of those include French or mondioring always always always teach the dog to bite legs first before moving onto arm sleeve work.
 
#33 ·
SDA is my other sport of choice. My dog prefers it over IPO, whenever he gets the chance.
 
#36 ·
No, I, and others, believe there is a separate drive that isn't just defense and prey. These dogs want to dominate, control and over power their opponent. They are not trying to take down or obtain prey and they are not working out of a desire to ward off a threat (defense).

As an example; I used to have chickens. Dogs love to chase them and would kill them if they didn't learn at a young age that wasn't allowed (prey). I also had a rooster that liked to attack the dogs. The dogs would generally chase him away or try to attack him if he tried to spur them (defense, driving away a threat). I have one bitch, though, that would actually go looking for him. She would push the hens and my roosters (I had 4) until the one attacked and then she would grab him and pin him on the ground. She would do this to people too if I allowed it. This dog gets great joy out of the fight, out of bullying, pushing and dominating.

Raiser talks about fighting drive. I have read his book many times. :) And yes, that was the purpose of SchH. It was a test of the dogs to help us chose our breeding stock so as to maintain the GSD as a utilitarian working dog. It was never about sport and, for me, it still is not about sport (even if I enjoy participating).
 
#37 ·
No, I, and others, believe there is a separate drive that isn't just defense and prey. These dogs want to dominate, control and over power their opponent. They are not trying to take down or obtain prey and they are not working out of a desire to ward off a threat (defense).

As an example; I used to have chickens. Dogs love to chase them and would kill them if they didn't learn at a young age that wasn't allowed (prey). I also had a rooster that liked to attack the dogs. The dogs would generally chase him away or try to attack him if he tried to spur them (defense, driving away a threat). I have one bitch, though, that would actually go looking for him. She would push the hens and my roosters (I had 4) until the one attacked and then she would grab him and pin him on the ground. She would do this to people too if I allowed it. This dog gets great joy out of the fight, out of bullying, pushing and dominating.
Ok, agreed! I believe I recognize this type :)
 
#38 ·
Ver worth it!

Fairly new Schutzhund and in a short two year span I've learned more than I thought there was involved. It's very rewarding being around more exprienced handlers and helpers and just soaking it all in. My current dog won't be taking me to any national level events but has shown me how much fun a handler and dog can have.

Side note with regards to the more sporty vs. "real" dogs, in my short time doing helper work the dogs that have higher defense and higher fight drives are way more fun to work vs. your more "sporty" type dogs.
 
#39 ·
I haven't been in the sport very long and have never had to deal with a real threat with my dog. And, honestly, I think he would look at me like I was crazy if I gave him a protection command out of context (ie. no helper, no sleeve).

But, my TD did tell us a story last week that helps to show the utility of IPO training in real life protection scenarios. Our TD is retired K9 officer and had a series of K9 partners over a long career. One partner, a Czech dog, was also his IPO dog that he titled to a Sch 3. And, he claims that the IPO training did help in certain protection situations on the job. The "bring" command in trial tells the dog to fetch the dumb bell. Anyway, this officer said that if he had to do a building search for a perp, he would give his k-9 the "bring" command and sure enough, the dog would run into the building, grab the "dumb bell" and drag him out of the building by his arm. No more building entries for the officer! Now, whether or TD was pulling our legs or not, I will leave up to you to decide! But I am choosing to believe him :)
 
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