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Old 07-19-2014, 03:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default extremely civil/ideas for prey??

theres a 15 month old at my club that is extremely civil. solid dog with good nerves. just agitating him with a bite pillow/whip and he is out for blood. not equipment oriented at all. he is all about the man. when playing with his owner he's all prey. good grip and calm. decoy tries to play with him and you can tell by how he bites that he is in defense.

idea to level him out? he has never done bite work. this was his second session but it was an eye opener. just waggle the tug in front of him and agitate and he will get him so worked up he's looking right past the tug and straight to the helper. he actually slipped his collar, charged and went straight for the helper for a bite.

seems like he has a hard time figuring out if the decoy is a threat or playing a game. decoy so much as postures and he chooses threat. basically how to teach the dog that its a game? the dog will bite the pillow and spit it out and attention right back on decoy,
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think it can be done - hope I am wrong. I recently spoke to someone who did work as decoy for his friend's dog. The dog did the same thing -went past the pillow right for his throat where the opening in the suit was. His friend thought he dog was too excited - next session the dog went for the decoy's knee then up to the throat.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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maybe quit agitating him with bite pillow and whip and start further out doing some zigzags?
Does the handler have good obedience on him? I'd step up the control, let the dog mature some.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It is very hard to give advice without seeing the dog and the work. It may be the dog does not have the right stuff or it may be that the work being done is totally wrong for the dog. I have seen dogs that work more out of defense/aggression successfully worked, but it requires a helper that knows what they are doing.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Control is good. Dog has no problem focused heeling around strangers and other dogs. Dog even let's decoy walk him out of owners sight with no problem.

Just seems like his prey to defense switch is extremely fast. Not sure if it can be changed or if this dog is too much liability for sport.
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would go back to basic tug play put on the sleeve and work the dog in prey drive teach him it's a game" the rules of the game" how fun the game can be. He can be a p.p.d. later lol Bill

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Old 07-19-2014, 11:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Just wanted to say when I said To teach the game" let the helper be the handler the handler becomes the helper no stress on dog teach the game win the sleeve all prey drive" the game. Bill

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Old 07-20-2014, 06:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
It is very hard to give advice without seeing the dog and the work. It may be the dog does not have the right stuff or it may be that the work being done is totally wrong for the dog. I have seen dogs that work more out of defense/aggression successfully worked, but it requires a helper that knows what they are doing.
I had a dog years ago who was all defense on the field. On his home turf, he had intense prey, but once he was out of his comfort zone, he was 100% defense, all the time. I was surprised the helper trusted him on the long bite.

Eventually, I took him out of the sport. Defense drive is stressful for the dog & he wasn't getting the relief of any prey/play. And the liability issues.

My original intent had been to build his confidence & see if we could balance him, as well as teach him self control.

Amazing how many people thought he was just great & wanted to buy this nervy dog.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I know I should not even comment, because I really do not have the experience to speak with authority on this subject. All I have is two very nicely balanced dogs so no first hand experience. However, in the past three years of active participation in schutzhund I have observed many dogs that seamed to be all defense. It is my opinion that they should not be in the sport. The ones I have observed have not had the mental clarity to ever really understand what was being asked of them and none of them ever made it past the very early stages of drive and bite development. I did watch one guy who took his female all the way to trial. I knew the dog would not pass but the owner was ambitious. She would not go into the blind for the Hold and bark. I really think the dogs weak nerves will not allow it to think clear about the task being asked of it. I think a dog has to be able to get "it" mentally. During training a dog has to be able to make leaps in logic. You should see the light bulb go on at some point.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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A dog can appear to be very defensive with the wrong work. A dog that has more defense or even aggression in comparison to its prey requires different work than a dog that is mostly prey. They don't look at SchH as a game (which it never was meant to be), but as a fight with a real opponent. Protection work involves some stress. That is why it is/was a test. Anyhow the helpers with the skills to work anything but crazy prey monsters, are getting few and far between (and they were not that common to begin with).
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