working a dog in defense??? - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-01-2014, 06:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Liz&Anna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 387
Default working a dog in defense???

sooo I went to see some people that I trained with when Anna was a baby, and they did something's that I didn't really agree with, just out of curiosity, what age would you/have you worked a dog defensively or "civil" I think I've hear it called?

The decoy argued with me and said thy raise police dogs and will start training this way at an early age, I just thought that sounded wrong


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Liz&Anna is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-01-2014, 09:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
mycobraracr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 2,303
Default

IMO a puppy with good genetics, can be brought up balanced. I personally don't like working puppies/young dogs only in prey. Keeping everything age appropriate is key.
mycobraracr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 09:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Liz&Anna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
IMO a puppy with good genetics, can be brought up balanced. I personally don't like working puppies/young dogs only in prey. Keeping everything age appropriate is key.
How did you work the puppy in defense? I've had a few people tell me that in IPO you don't want a defensive dog because its gets them in to trouble (not sure what that means) and my girl is 10 months old and up until that day I have never had any one say something negative about her, I don't really want to post who the trainer was because I don't want them to look bad

But basically I went out there to see one of them and to do a session of bitework, they asked me what is like to do with her and I said I'd like to work on introducing her to stick hits and the whip because she has only seen it a few times.....

He told me he wanted Anna to focus on him and not the sleeve so he threw it on the ground (Anna will always focus on the sleeve because she has been trained to do so, she's an IPO dog not a police dog) and basically he back tied my puppy and whipped her, with a whip agitating her with no sleeve until she was SO MAD that when she finally did get a bite she bit the inside of her mouth and blood was pouring out.

After all this he proceeds to tell me that's dog has bad grips (which she 100% DOES NOT) and that I will never make it above club level with her because she genetically didn't have it.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Liz&Anna is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 10:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,194
Default

There are a lot of trainers like that...they truly do test the dog. I just wouldn't go back. You seem to be in it for the fun/sport so there's no need to push your dog to those limits, especially at that age.

High defense...will cause weaker grips. What you want is a dog that barks in defense (lots of power, deep barks) and then switches into prey for the bite. It should happen very quickly...

A good helper will work the dog in the respective drives in order to get what you want out of the dog. So a dog that's more prey...should gradually be transitioned into defense. To teach it (during training) that it can work in both. A dog that's more defensive, needs to be taught to work in prey.
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 10:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
mycobraracr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 2,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz&Anna View Post
He told me he wanted Anna to focus on him and not the sleeve so he threw it on the ground (Anna will always focus on the sleeve because she has been trained to do so, she's an IPO dog not a police dog) and basically he back tied my puppy and whipped her, with a whip agitating her with no sleeve until she was SO MAD that when she finally did get a bite she bit the inside of her mouth and blood was pouring out.
Sent from Petguide.com Free App
IPO is not about focusing on a sleeve. It's sad that people seem to think so.

Whipping her until she was mad is very wrong! I sent you a PM.
mycobraracr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 10:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
glowingtoadfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 1,377
Default

I'm so sorry that happened to Anna. You must be upset.
__________________
Emily
Skadi, AKA Lady Wolfington, GSD 4.6.12
Grim, AKA Bones , GSD 7.7.13
glowingtoadfly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 11:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
misslesleedavis1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 2,864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
IPO is not about focusing on a sleeve. It's sad that people seem to think so.

Whipping her until she was mad is very wrong! I sent you a PM.
This. I have seen the club around here work and they will throw the sleeve on the ground and stand still until the dog reacts to the helper then its quick to the sleeve and they jump around and make it fun and eventually tbe wups get to bite the sleeve.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
misslesleedavis1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 11:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 367
Default

Just don't go to the decoy if he isn't in line with your training goals.

With that said there's nothing more unimpressive than a dog with a high pitched bark in the bark and hold. Or just high pitched bark in general.
simba405 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 11:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
 
glowingtoadfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 1,377
Default

I love Anna's bark.
__________________
Emily
Skadi, AKA Lady Wolfington, GSD 4.6.12
Grim, AKA Bones , GSD 7.7.13
glowingtoadfly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-01-2014, 11:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 367
Default

Big difference between a whiny bark wanting the sleeve and a bark wanting to intimidate the decoy.
simba405 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:44 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com