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-   -   working a dog in defense??? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/466025-working-dog-defense.html)

Liz&Anna 07-01-2014 06:40 PM

working a dog in defense???
 
sooo I went to see some people that I trained with when Anna was a baby, and they did something's that I didn't really agree with, just out of curiosity, what age would you/have you worked a dog defensively or "civil" I think I've hear it called?

The decoy argued with me and said thy raise police dogs and will start training this way at an early age, I just thought that sounded wrong


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mycobraracr 07-01-2014 09:38 PM

IMO a puppy with good genetics, can be brought up balanced. I personally don't like working puppies/young dogs only in prey. Keeping everything age appropriate is key.

Liz&Anna 07-01-2014 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mycobraracr (Post 5716905)
IMO a puppy with good genetics, can be brought up balanced. I personally don't like working puppies/young dogs only in prey. Keeping everything age appropriate is key.

How did you work the puppy in defense? I've had a few people tell me that in IPO you don't want a defensive dog because its gets them in to trouble (not sure what that means) and my girl is 10 months old and up until that day I have never had any one say something negative about her, I don't really want to post who the trainer was because I don't want them to look bad

But basically I went out there to see one of them and to do a session of bitework, they asked me what is like to do with her and I said I'd like to work on introducing her to stick hits and the whip because she has only seen it a few times.....

He told me he wanted Anna to focus on him and not the sleeve so he threw it on the ground (Anna will always focus on the sleeve because she has been trained to do so, she's an IPO dog not a police dog) and basically he back tied my puppy and whipped her, with a whip agitating her with no sleeve until she was SO MAD that when she finally did get a bite she bit the inside of her mouth and blood was pouring out.

After all this he proceeds to tell me that's dog has bad grips (which she 100% DOES NOT) and that I will never make it above club level with her because she genetically didn't have it.


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martemchik 07-01-2014 10:22 PM

There are a lot of trainers like that...they truly do test the dog. I just wouldn't go back. You seem to be in it for the fun/sport so there's no need to push your dog to those limits, especially at that age.

High defense...will cause weaker grips. What you want is a dog that barks in defense (lots of power, deep barks) and then switches into prey for the bite. It should happen very quickly...

A good helper will work the dog in the respective drives in order to get what you want out of the dog. So a dog that's more prey...should gradually be transitioned into defense. To teach it (during training) that it can work in both. A dog that's more defensive, needs to be taught to work in prey.

mycobraracr 07-01-2014 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz&Anna (Post 5716977)
He told me he wanted Anna to focus on him and not the sleeve so he threw it on the ground (Anna will always focus on the sleeve because she has been trained to do so, she's an IPO dog not a police dog) and basically he back tied my puppy and whipped her, with a whip agitating her with no sleeve until she was SO MAD that when she finally did get a bite she bit the inside of her mouth and blood was pouring out.
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IPO is not about focusing on a sleeve. It's sad that people seem to think so.

Whipping her until she was mad is very wrong! I sent you a PM.

glowingtoadfly 07-01-2014 10:57 PM

I'm so sorry that happened to Anna. You must be upset.

misslesleedavis1 07-01-2014 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mycobraracr (Post 5717265)
IPO is not about focusing on a sleeve. It's sad that people seem to think so.

Whipping her until she was mad is very wrong! I sent you a PM.

This. I have seen the club around here work and they will throw the sleeve on the ground and stand still until the dog reacts to the helper then its quick to the sleeve and they jump around and make it fun and eventually tbe wups get to bite the sleeve.

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simba405 07-01-2014 11:13 PM

Just don't go to the decoy if he isn't in line with your training goals.

With that said there's nothing more unimpressive than a dog with a high pitched bark in the bark and hold. Or just high pitched bark in general.

glowingtoadfly 07-01-2014 11:32 PM

I love Anna's bark.

simba405 07-01-2014 11:42 PM

Big difference between a whiny bark wanting the sleeve and a bark wanting to intimidate the decoy.


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