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-   -   Working Prospect question (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/461529-working-prospect-question.html)

workingk9_Ohio 06-18-2014 12:42 AM

Working Prospect question
 
Hi there, I am new to the forum and have been offered an amazing opportunity to obtain a GSD. I will start by saying I have never owned a GSD before, however I have owned working, titled, imported Rottweilers so I *am* familiar and comfortable with strong working dogs. I am coming here because although I am familiar with titles, I am not familiar with any lines in the GSD world and would love some honest feedback regarding this bitch I may get. Basic info: She is 21 months old, she's had about 6 months obedience/schutzhund training. She is not titled in any way, basically because she is still quite young. Her owner is rehoming her because he doesn't have time (he's got 9 dogs and is downsizing to 3. He has 2 successful businesses and will be starring in a new reality show on A&E and filming is due to start soon). She is eager to please, prefers women, easily corrected, and good with other dogs. I would be getting her for competition obedience, personal protection, and would probably at least aim for a BH, and perhaps go further depending on us both (I have 3 kids at home, ages 8-17, as well as 4 other dogs so time is at a premium at the moment, but will be easing up in the next couple years as kids move out and we lose our corso who doesn't have a lot of time left due to crippling hip dysplasia). Additionally, I will most likely train her to be my service dog. I work part time from home so even though I do have several dogs, they spend most of each day with us. 2 of the dogs are 4 pound chihuahuas so not really dogs at all ;-)

Anyway, here are links to the bitch's sire and dam. If you know of any good, bad, or indifferent information on the dogs on either side, I would be really grateful. My biggest concerns are: temperament, health & trainability. I need a dog that is athletic, healthy, and that has an OFF switch and can be calm in the house. She will be a house pet first and foremost. I can deal with a dog who may not be *superb* on the field as long as she can be calm and manageable at home.

Thanks in advance for any advice, comments you can provide. I realize that there is no dog bashing allowed, so if you have some negative info to share, please PM the info to me so as not to break forum rules.

Dam:
V Chitty Leryka

Sire:
V Terror von der Staatsmacht

Carey

simba405 06-18-2014 01:06 AM

Pedigree is basically irrelevant at this point. You have an almost mature dog in front of you. You should be able to see all those traits in the dog with your own eyes. Much more valuable than a pedigree in terms of assessing. Pedigree is nothing more than a baseline. You have the real deal in front of you.

Packen 06-18-2014 01:34 AM

Have you watched her train? pretty important as people typically do not turn around and sell a 21 month old dog with promising future. It does happen but also could be due to a temperament/health issue that got unveiled by training or a mis-match to handler experience level but in any case you need to know (you have kids and other animals). Best to have someone experienced evaluate in person to see if good match for your household (not just online pedigree reading) before buying. Contacting the breeders would be a first step.

workingk9_Ohio 06-18-2014 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simba405 (Post 5655617)
Pedigree is basically irrelevant at this point. You have an almost mature dog in front of you. You should be able to see all those traits in the dog with your own eyes. Much more valuable than a pedigree in terms of assessing. Pedigree is nothing more than a baseline. You have the real deal in front of you.


Actually, the dog is out of state and I do not have the luxury of seeing her in person. But thanks.

workingk9_Ohio 06-18-2014 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packen (Post 5655681)
Have you watched her train? pretty important as people typically do not turn around and sell a 21 month old dog with promising future. It does happen but also could be due to a temperament/health issue that got unveiled by training or a mis-match to handler experience level but in any case you need to know (you have kids and other animals). Best to have someone experienced evaluate in person to see if good match for your household (not just online pedigree reading) before buying. Contacting the breeders would be a first step.

The owner is a good friend---- not sure how to put this....he has a lot of money and purchased several top notch dogs in a few different breeds simply because he could and he likes to look at them. He doesn't do any training or trialing at all. He just likes to have really nice dogs. He's got a second home and second business in Florida where he has decided to reside the majority of the time and he knows it's simply unfair to keep dogs in a kennel (albeit a gorgeous, $50,000 kennel) when they could be living to their full potential with someone else. He's keeping his 2 trained K-9's for his business and one other dog as a pet but rehoming the rest, as he's realized he has overextended himself. He wouldn't pawn off a dog with an issue on me. He's simply offering me an amazing opportunity. I don't live near him and cannot see her train or even see her in person prior to getting her, which is why I was coming here. ----

I was really hoping to get feedback about the dogs in her pedigree-- are they sane? are they good workers? because he doesn't know anything about GSD pedigrees, either. All he knows is he paid a lot of money for her and she's supposed to have a great pedigree (which I certainly think she does). I know some GSD can be crazy and hard to own and since I've never owned one before, I can't look at the pedigree and say, "Oh, so-and-so is there so that's a good indicator that she may not have an off switch", etc.

Thanks anyway.

martemchik 06-18-2014 10:58 AM

How does this guy have “trained K9s” I thought a trained K9 could only be owned by a “trained police officer.”

Any predictions based on the pedigree would’ve already come out. If the guy tells you the dog is fine, the dog is probably fine at this point. If he’s a good friend, trust him. Sounds like you don’t, so you’re going for other people’s opinions. But if he’s that good of a friend, shouldn’t really have a reason to lie to you about the dog. More than likely, if your goals are to get a BH, the dog can do it. If you really want a real PP dog…you’d need a solid evaluation done by a person that knows what they’re talking about.

To me, price would matter at this point. A 21 month old, barely trained, sounds like a kennel dog. Not sure how much I’d be willing to pay for that when I can guarantee myself a very solid puppy for $1200 or so that wouldn’t come with any baggage that might’ve been put on it from a prior owner/trainer.

I really wouldn’t care how much a person paid for the dog in the first place. Many times, people will get charged what the breeder knows a person can afford…especially when importing. An equal quality dog from Europe will cost more because those breeders tend to understand that if you’re even considering importing…you probably have more than enough money to pay a higher premium for a dog you can easily get in the states.

Puppies generally get sold on potential and their pedigree because that could lead to breeding and revenue later on. An older dog, should basically be sold based on its accomplishments without any thought given to what was originally paid for the dog. From what I see in the pedigree, it’s a good pedigree, but the dog in front of you, isn’t anything special IMO and depending on the price, you might be able to get something way better that fits what you want, or he might be giving you a great deal.

workingk9_Ohio 06-18-2014 11:43 AM

Thank you. I absolutely trust him-- he just hasn't been around the dog much due to his business and he knows zilch about pedigrees, he'd tell you that himself. He is in the law enforcement business. He's not charging me a dime for the dog.


Quote:

Originally Posted by martemchik (Post 5656609)
How does this guy have “trained K9s” I thought a trained K9 could only be owned by a “trained police officer.”

Any predictions based on the pedigree would’ve already come out. If the guy tells you the dog is fine, the dog is probably fine at this point. If he’s a good friend, trust him. Sounds like you don’t, so you’re going for other people’s opinions. But if he’s that good of a friend, shouldn’t really have a reason to lie to you about the dog. More than likely, if your goals are to get a BH, the dog can do it. If you really want a real PP dog…you’d need a solid evaluation done by a person that knows what they’re talking about.

To me, price would matter at this point. A 21 month old, barely trained, sounds like a kennel dog. Not sure how much I’d be willing to pay for that when I can guarantee myself a very solid puppy for $1200 or so that wouldn’t come with any baggage that might’ve been put on it from a prior owner/trainer.

I really wouldn’t care how much a person paid for the dog in the first place. Many times, people will get charged what the breeder knows a person can afford…especially when importing. An equal quality dog from Europe will cost more because those breeders tend to understand that if you’re even considering importing…you probably have more than enough money to pay a higher premium for a dog you can easily get in the states.

Puppies generally get sold on potential and their pedigree because that could lead to breeding and revenue later on. An older dog, should basically be sold based on its accomplishments without any thought given to what was originally paid for the dog. From what I see in the pedigree, it’s a good pedigree, but the dog in front of you, isn’t anything special IMO and depending on the price, you might be able to get something way better that fits what you want, or he might be giving you a great deal.


martemchik 06-18-2014 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by workingk9_Ohio (Post 5656857)
Thank you. I absolutely trust him-- he just hasn't been around the dog much due to his business and he knows zilch about pedigrees, he'd tell you that himself. He is in the law enforcement business. He's not charging me a dime for the dog.

Lol if that's the case, I really wouldn't think twice about it.

workingk9_Ohio 06-18-2014 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martemchik (Post 5656889)
Lol if that's the case, I really wouldn't think twice about it.

We've decided to get her :-) I just didn't want to get a crazy dog lol

Carey

eddie1976E 06-18-2014 12:08 PM

The price is right....put some $ into training...and you are all set.


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