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-   -   Will IPO trained dogs bite without sleeve? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/452865-will-ipo-trained-dogs-bite-without-sleeve.html)

Airman1stclass 05-21-2014 05:14 PM

Will IPO trained dogs bite without sleeve?
 
If the answer is no, how hard is it to switch over to I guess personal protection. Are hidden sleeves ever used in IPO training and why can't you just mix the two (IPO/PP).

Wild Wolf 05-21-2014 05:19 PM

You should do a forum search for "civil aggression", lots of good stuff lurking here.

German Shepherd Dog Forums - Search Results

Some people do mix the two. Depends on the person, depends on the dog. One is a structured sport, the other is a very different form of protection work (may or may not include muzzle work, bite suits, hidden sleeves, etc).

I think how hard it is to switch depends on the innate drives, temperament and traits of the dog itself.

hunterisgreat 05-21-2014 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman1stclass (Post 5548769)
If the answer is no, how hard is it to switch over to I guess personal protection. Are hidden sleeves ever used in IPO training and why can't you just mix the two (IPO/PP).

Almost none will. This is by design though. A bite anywhere but the sleeve can get you DQ'ed or banned. IPO dogs are strongly discouraged from ever biting anything but that jute sleeve, and even then a specific part of that sleeve only.

How hard is it to switch? Depends on the dog and your (helper and you) collective training abilities & equipment.

Most probably train only with the sleeves, jute pillows/wedges. Some (like myself) train with hidden sleeves... and suits, and muzzles, and no equipment (no bite obviously). I personally want personal protection dogs first and foremost, and IPO dogs as time, training, and opportunity allows. So, you can certainly mix the two with the right training and the right dog.

The above being said, I believe most IPO dogs unsuitable for personal protection work. Topic for another thread though lol

Airman1stclass 05-21-2014 05:24 PM

Is the dog banned or the trainer? Either way that's a tough punishment. Especially if it happend on accident. But I guess its probably almost impossible for a dog to bite anything besides the big sleeve. Especially when it's right in their face.

Wild Wolf 05-21-2014 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunterisgreat (Post 5548809)

The above being said, I believe most IPO dogs unsuitable for personal protection work. Topic for another thread though lol

You should elaborate in another thread, I for one would love to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.

martemchik 05-21-2014 05:31 PM

If introduced properly...most IPO dogs will bite something other than a sleeve. You can basically trick them into doing it and once they do it once, realize its okay, they'll keep doing it.

The reasons its not done were listed by hunter...

I work in SDA and in IPO, and you realize dogs will bite whatever you train them to bite. They'll also have their favorite spots...which is what you tell an SDA helper before you trial, so that they know what to present to the dog for a bite. So even on a coat...my dog bites the forearm.

hunterisgreat 05-21-2014 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman1stclass (Post 5548841)
Is the dog banned or the trainer? Either way that's a tough punishment. Especially if it happend on accident. But I guess its probably almost impossible for a dog to bite anything besides the big sleeve. Especially when it's right in their face.

Can't remember but I believe its the dog, and its initially 6 months or a year, and either a second or third offense is a lifetime ban (?)

hunterisgreat 05-21-2014 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martemchik (Post 5548913)
If introduced properly...most IPO dogs will bite something other than a sleeve. You can basically trick them into doing it and once they do it once, realize its okay, they'll keep doing it.

The reasons its not done were listed by hunter...

I work in SDA and in IPO, and you realize dogs will bite whatever you train them to bite. They'll also have their favorite spots...which is what you tell an SDA helper before you trial, so that they know what to present to the dog for a bite. So even on a coat...my dog bites the forearm.

And everytime I see that in SDA it makes me cringe. There isn't much padding in a suit sleeve. I have scars on my bicep from suit bites. There is no way on earth I'm taking a forearm bite in my suit. Folks don't realize how hard a dog can bite, just the pressure... My male's grand sire was notorious for breaking forearms on the street ... I train mine to target bicep/armpit from the front, or tricep from the rear... so for the OP, you can see a dog can be trained "if sleeve present, bite sleeve. If jacket, bite armpit." etc. A helper failed to get a pillow out quickly with Katya and took a thigh bite from her in scratch pants... and we've never done a single leg bite... so some dogs, are getting their bite come **** or high water.

hunterisgreat 05-21-2014 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Wolf (Post 5548897)
You should elaborate in another thread, I for one would love to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.

I can sum up everyone's thoughts like this:

"My dog is a monster, he/she will bite anything I'm sure of it"

or

"I've worked and watched enough dogs on enough types of equipment to know most will not unless specifically trained to do so, and even then many very nice IPO dogs are ill suited for biting things other than sleeves."

bill 05-21-2014 05:50 PM

Yup!:thumbup:

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